What have you done to your Gen2 Tiguan today?

[REXman]

What have you done to your Gen2 Tiguan today?

No point upgrading the front anti roll bar (often called a sway bar) as the Tiguan naturally understeers, increasing the front one will induce more understeer.

Upgrading the rear one will make the car turn better, however if you go too thick you'll risk the chances huge oversteer OR lift off oversteer if driven in anger.

I’m always driving in anger so maybe not good haha. Ok so I will definitely leave the front as is and just do the rear.

What are you trying to achieve?

Less rolly polly around corners

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[Ozsko]

I’m always driving in anger so maybe not good haha. Ok so I will definitely leave the front as is and just do the rear.



Less rolly polly around corners

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Don't take this the wrong way but it is a Tiguan, handles like a boat so get over it. I drove our Golf Performance the other day after a long absence from behind its steering wheel and marvelled out how it actually went where you pointed it. The Tiguan takes a message and thinks about what it is supposed to do when someone turns the wheel. Admittedly the Tiguan is on 17's and the Golf on 19's but both have their good points and work as designed. I deliberately refused to buy the R line because of the wheels and driving on dirt a lot so I put up with what it does not do. The CoG is way too high to stop the body roll no matter what you do to it. If you make it too stiff at one end it will pitch from back to front over bumps so keep that in mind.

[Khaz0r]

Hey Ozsko, I think the guys here are aiming to create a bigger, family sized hot hatch. Lowering the springs, adding sway bars will definitely help with handling and being tossed around while taking corners a bit more adventurously.

[REXman]

Yeah I don’t think anyone is expecting it to handle like a lotus but the fun is improving it.

VWs handle pretty good anyway so a Tiguan I found handles better than any comparable SUV. Putting some springs and a sway bar to go with all the power a modified 162TSI has is actually quite rewarding and gives some surprising results! I thought the smallest wheels on a Tiguan are 18s?


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[PDMJO]

Yeah I don’t think anyone is expecting it to handle like a lotus but the fun is improving it.

VWs handle pretty good anyway so a Tiguan I found handles better than any comparable SUV. Putting some springs and a sway bar to go with all the power a modified 162TSI has is actually quite rewarding and gives some surprising results! I thought the smallest wheels on a Tiguan are 18s?


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Probably a debatable opinion, but if you’ve got lowering springs, is there any real benefit from an upgraded rear sway bar? I would’ve thought the springs would already do most of the work that the bar would do.

[Dose Pipe Sutututu]

Probably a debatable opinion, but if you’ve got lowering springs, is there any real benefit from an upgraded rear sway bar? I would’ve thought the springs would already do most of the work that the bar would do.

Only if they're stiffer, if they're of the same identical spring rate then not really - except lowering the COG.

Adding in a rear anti roll bar will help the car turn better, however you'll find if you ever decide to take it off road you might end up with a scenario where it dog legs.

[Ozsko]

There are thick books written about this stuff so educated guesses are not a good idea as these days it costs a lot of money to make a mistake which will have to be undone by spending more money. I advise anyone that is going to modify the suspension of a car to do some study and ask question of knowledgeable people first. We used to do it years ago and basically it cost us very little and no one had the knowledge then anyway or no one we knew had it and anything we did was generally an improvement on what the car manufacturer did. These days suspensions are generally engineered well and though a lot of people modify suspensions not many get the car to be better than the manufacturer as an all round answer. I have never seen anyone modify a car suspension and then admit they got it wrong.

[Dose Pipe Sutututu]

I have never seen anyone modify a car suspension and then admit they got it wrong.

I have, when I was doing heaps of track work in the R33 Skyline. Went down the while super thick af ARBs with just Bilstein shocks with springs and the car although handled well it would pitch too much on braking and lift off oversteer and/or snap oversteer.

Ended up reworking the lot and went super stiff springs (10kg front and 7kg rears) with revalved MCA coilovers and ran both front and rear ARBs on the softest settings. Ended up doing 1m9s from a 1m12s around Wakefield Park (same driver), my mate was doing consistent 1m8s in it.

So yeah wasted money and time but my experiences stiff ARBs isn't always the best solution.

[Ozsko]

Stiff ARB's are a trap for beginners, too much wheel lift and a planted wheel has grip which is something a lot of people forget. Yes it costs a lot to undo mistakes something else people forget and a lot of people would not think of using someone like Murray Coote. I must be getting old because I spent some time with him in NZ on a Heatway Rally back in the 70's. Our kart did 1.01 around WP with 125cc.

[Dose Pipe Sutututu]

1.01 around WP is a fast time, regardless of type of vehicle.

However we all know the challenges in making a R33 Skyline fast around a track lol.. they're call boats for a reason.

I've gone through a few different suspension setups in the past and can safely say I've gotten it wrong a few times - however with trial and error and going outside the norms of most people's suspension modification journeys I can say putting in ARBs shouldn't be the first on the list.

(unrelated) going to see if I can do 1m5s in the Boatline soon around WP. Recently it has had a new motor/hotside setup put in as well as some additional suspension mods. Just need to get off my backside hire out a dyno and tune it.

[REXman]

So would you do the rear sway or springs first?


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[Dose Pipe Sutututu]

Springs first, then see how the car handles. If it unders a bit going into corners and upgrade the rear ARB to help it turn more - however as mentioned earlier, with a thicker ARB the car will be unforgiving when driven in anger. Also remember a thicker from ARB will promote understeer.

[Sydneykid]

I always do the rear swaybar first (on a FWD biased 4WD), it's the best bang for buck handling upgrade by a long way. Plus if your halfway handy with a spanner it's a DIY exercise, no special tools required.

People choose springs first because of the "look" and workshops recommend springs first because they make more money.

The problem with upgrading springs only is matching them with the damper rates in the shocks. That's why OEM lowering is pretty conservative, 10mm etc. Which means that they don't need to increase the spring rate too much and the shock can cope with the small increase. When we get to 25/30mm lowering then the required spring rate increase can often be too much for the shock to control.

Cheers
Gary

[Ozsko]

Get the springs right which can mean multiple sets = money ? repeated times & then get some adjustable dampers from someone who knows how to set them up on a damper dyno to suit the spring rate, Murray Coote can help there. They are not shock absorbers they are dampers as their primary job is to dampen the spring oscillation when the spring is compressed hence the point about raised spring rates and damper control. Disconnect them and take a car for a drive and you will quickly work out what they do. Carry on, just my favorite little rant when suspension is discussed. Everyone says they like oversteer and when they have to deal with it on a day to day basis work out that it is not such a great idea after all. There are two kinds of oversteer, steady state which highly skilled drivers can utilise but usually prefer it dialled back to neutral/understeer and rear end breakaway which is out of control/wet yourself oversteer and no one likes that.

[Dose Pipe Sutututu]

Everyone says they like oversteer and when they have to deal with it on a day to day basis work out that it is not such a great idea after all. There are two kinds of oversteer, steady state which highly skilled drivers can utilise but usually prefer it dialled back to neutral/understeer and rear end breakaway which is out of control/wet yourself oversteer and no one likes that.

Can't agree more here! and another reason you see so many P platers cars wrapped around trees - because first suspension mod they did was find the thickest rear ARB on Whiteline catalogue to reduce body roll and activate grip, nek minnit lift off oversteer.