Tiguan IS38 and Big turbo upgrades

[Ozsko]

Does anyone believe the 70kw claimed increase by Bluefin? That is only just south of a turbo change so why go to all the trouble of a turbo swap if Blufin's claim is true.

[Wolfsburger]

Does anyone believe the 70kw claimed increase by Bluefin? That is only just south of a turbo change so why go to all the trouble of a turbo swap if Blufin's claim is true.

Does anyone believe the 70kw claimed increase by Bluefin? That is only just south of a turbo change so why go to all the trouble of a turbo swap if Blufin's claim is true.

I can’t confirm the Bluefin claim. Some are not considering there is more power to be extracted from the EA888 LONG BEFORE a turbo upgrade. It makes absolutely no sense to me doing a turbo upgrade before you have extracted every HP available first. It’s why most do it in stages, why go straight to a turbo swap when you haven’t extracted the vital HP that will only serve as more HP once you get to the turbo swap?

[REXman]

Does anyone believe the 70kw claimed increase by Bluefin? That is only just south of a turbo change so why go to all the trouble of a turbo swap if Blufin's claim is true.

I’m definitely conservative when it comes to power and motor claims as you have probably seen in this thread alone.

I can confirm though that I trialed the bluefin and was blown away by the difference of the stage 1 tune.

No launch control, just floor it off the lights, and traction light would come on. The car felt crazy different.

If I was to do it all again, I’d probably just get stage 2 with bluefin. In other words, just do an exhaust and air filter and maybe a cooler and get the bluefin without doing the turbo and custom tune it was that good.

I’ll see after the break if I feel the same as I’m car is getting another look at.

[REXman]

I can’t confirm the Bluefin claim. Some are not considering there is more power to be extracted from the EA888 LONG BEFORE a turbo upgrade. It makes absolutely no sense to me doing a turbo upgrade before you have extracted every HP available first. It’s why most do it in stages, why go straight to a turbo swap when you haven’t extracted the vital HP that will only serve as more HP once you get to the turbo swap?

Only reason I did it is because of the cost of Labour of swapping the DP might as well do the turbo as well.

[Wolfsburger]

Only reason I did it is because of the cost of Labour of swapping the DP might as well do the turbo as well.

Understand that Rexman but what I don’t understand is why you didn’t keep the tune and then get the DP, that alone would have been impressive! I’m not having a crack at you bud but I can’t understand why you went this way other than for the sake of saving labour? No one is making over exaggerated claims about their upgraded power, it’s what they are seeing, just seems to me like your doing things in reverse. That said I don’t know what else you have done to your car. Have you done any pipe work upgrades, turbo muffler delete and turbo elbow etc? Main intake and stage 2 intake pipes? These four components alone are only going to small but positive changes until you upgrade the turbo, which obviously you have done already. It all combines to reach the figures the guys who have done stage 1, 2 and 3 are seeing.

[tigger73]

Does anyone believe the 70kw claimed increase by Bluefin? That is only just south of a turbo change so why go to all the trouble of a turbo swap if Blufin's claim is true.

A number of tuners will quote engine kW figures which is what VW (and other vehicles manufacturers) claim with their 132/162kW outputs. These are engine outputs at the crank. These are fairly hard to test/verify outside of pulling the engine and running it on a test bench.

Most people that have tuned their cars and run them on the dyno are measuring power/torque output at the wheels. There's a reasonable difference with the crank and wheels figures as the wheels includes a number of losses including gearbox, AWD drivetrain, tyres, etc, etc. So you need to be sure whether you're comparing a crank figure or a kw at the wheels (kwaw) figure.

You can make an estimate at the driveline losses to calculate a crank figure but that's all it is - an estimated crank figure. For the Tiguan with DQ500 and AWD the driveline losses are around 30% (give or take). If you run a manual the losses will be less and if it's FWD only again loss is less so really will depend on the configuration and why some tuners will claim the flywheel figure as it's easier than looking at all the combinations of transmissions and drive types to come up with a performance (output) figure. Much easier to do it based on an engine and then apply that to all vehicles the engine is installed in.

[REXman]

Yeah a good example of that is the old wrx and 200sx.

Both early versions had 147KWs at flywheel.

The wrx posted 85-88KWs at 4 wheels, where the 200sx was around 105-110KW at rear wheels.


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[REXman]

Understand that Rexman but what I don’t understand is why you didn’t keep the tune and then get the DP, that alone would have been impressive! I’m not having a crack at you bud but I can’t understand why you went this way other than for the sake of saving labour? No one is making over exaggerated claims about their upgraded power, it’s what they are seeing, just seems to me like your doing things in reverse. That said I don’t know what else you have done to your car. Have you done any pipe work upgrades, turbo muffler delete and turbo elbow etc? Main intake and stage 2 intake pipes? These four components alone are only going to small but positive changes until you upgrade the turbo, which obviously you have done already. It all combines to reach the figures the guys who have done stage 1, 2 and 3 are seeing.

No offense taken at all, everyone has there view. Not sure I get your logic.

For me, I would rather do most as I can soon as I can so I can enjoy the car at its peak for longer.

I did what you suggest with an MY03 wrx I had. Got a tune. Sat on that. Then added an air filter. Then got the exhaust. Then got a tmic. But over the years I realized if I had the cash to do it and just enjoy the power earlier, I should. Everyone’s different.

I think you’ll find my car should dyno quiet well after my next visit. I’m waiting till then.

The IS20 does spool up quicker than the IS38 so that contributes to the feeling of it being not as intense down low.


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[REXman]

Quick question. I have an intercooler. What’s a fair price in Sydney for the install? Any recommendations?


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[tigger73]

Quick question. I have an intercooler. What’s a fair price in Sydney for the install? Any recommendations?


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It's probably 4-5 hours labour involved so I'd expect in the $500-600 range.

[REXman]

Thanks Tigger73!

Question to all. Out of the BMS Intercooler and the CTS one, which is better?

Seems the CTS is more expensive, bigger, and cools more. Obviously will be a bit more effort to charge up but I’m torn. Not worrying about price - which one?


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[tigger73]

Thanks Tigger73!

Question to all. Out of the BMS Intercooler and the CTS one, which is better?

Seems the CTS is more expensive, bigger, and cools more. Obviously will be a bit more effort to charge up but I’m torn. Not worrying about price - which one?

It depends what type of driving you're looking to be doing. If you're tracking it and you're going to be having multiple back-to-back WOT runs then I'd possibly look at the bigger intercooler. Also if you have a hybrid (high flow) IS38 then a bigger intercooler starts to make more sense.

However if you're just looking at removing some potential restriction and dropping the intake temps but still want to keep the car responsive then the BMS is a good compromise size. I think for road use with the occasional squirt at WOT this one would be the way to go.

That's my 2c from installing the Wagner intercooler and seeing a performance drop (car was measurably slower). But that was also while I was still stock tune and IS20 turbo so it didn't have enough puff to fill the volume of the intercooler quickly.

Have a look at the chart for intercooler performance from Mk7Golf:

[REXman]

See I’m just wondering as I have the IS38 and a tune and DP, would the CTS be better.. or is the burger enough, assuming same price.


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[tigger73]

See I’m just wondering as I have the IS38 and a tune and DP, would the CTS be better.. or is the burger enough, assuming same price.

BMS is 50% larger than stock. Personally I think for general road use and daily driving you don’t want to go too big as all you’ll introduce is lag.

If you’re doing long pulls on WOT then you may be able to notice a difference. My suggestion is go with the smaller cooler for quicker on boost out of roundabouts/corners.



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[REXman]

BMS is 50% larger than stock. Personally I think for general road use and daily driving you don’t want to go too big as all you’ll introduce is lag.

If you’re doing long pulls on WOT then you may be able to notice a difference. My suggestion is go with the smaller cooler for quicker on boost out of roundabouts/corners.



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I actually feel the same way Tigger73, the only thing is that apparently the BMS is made in China, where the CTS is made in Canada, and the CTS has some more directional flow in the end tanks... which is making it hard to settle on the BMS, even though i like the sleek look of the BMS.