Tiguan IS38 and Big turbo upgrades

[tigger73]

Once the new A and CLA 45 AMG S are out the market will be flooded with the previous generation as it a much better car overall, not just a facelift... i recon there will be alot traded in

A lot of the original CLA 45 owners traded their cars within 6 months as they were too hard to live with on a daily basis. They don't have an "off" button where you can just trundle around in relative comfort. The suspension was hard or harder and when you wanted it quiet you got crackles and pops every gear change.

[Nyer]

I am seriously considering the stage 3 Apr with the IS38 but then noticed that torque comes on so much later than the tuned IS20. See torque curve below. One thing I really miss from my old Tucson 2.0 diesel, was that you could just put your foot down and the engine would surge with a nice amount of torque without needing to changing gears. It was just a nice amount of instant torque on tap. Great for City driving!

To get the Tiguan moving, it hesitates to drop a gear or two to accelerate...

Has anyone get real world experience in the tuned IS20 VS IS38? I'm guessing the later torque delivery is because the IS38 is bigger.

[REXman]

Yeah take the graphs with a grain of salt. They’re helpful, but I don’t trust companies advertising as much as I want to.

The IS20 spoils up much harder/quicker.

I had an IS20 with a bluefin and when I floored it the traction light would come on.

No such excitement with the IS38, but I am getting the car retuned in about 2 weeks so I’ll report back.

The IS38 does make nicer power in the mid to high range though and really hunts above 70km/h.

When I get my car back I’ll tell you if you’re best going with stg2+ (tune and some basic bolt on mods) or stg 3 (bigger turbo etc as I have done). Right now, although better top end, it not so good that I’m still missing the franticness of the bottom end.


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[tigger73]

I am seriously considering the stage 3 Apr with the IS38 but then noticed that torque comes on so much later than the tuned IS20. See torque curve below. One thing I really miss from my old Tucson 2.0 diesel, was that you could just put your foot down and the engine would surge with a nice amount of torque without needing to changing gears. It was just a nice amount of instant torque on tap. Great for City driving!

To get the Tiguan moving, it hesitates to drop a gear or two to accelerate...

Has anyone get real world experience in the tuned IS20 VS IS38? I'm guessing the later torque delivery is because the IS38 is bigger.

This is the major trade-off with smaller vs. bigger turbos on a daily driven car. Smaller turbos spool quicker but run out of puff whereas the bigger turbo takes a bit longer to spool but pulls harder. There's not right or wrong. It's all down to personal preference and generally on a daily driver you don't want to go too big as driveability can suffer.

Second point is if you look at the absolute numbers the IS38 makes the same torque as the IS20 at ~200rpm later in the lower rev range. It's a bit of lag which is noticeable but not a massive amount. Compare that to the curve at higher rpms and the IS38 holds on for a LOT longer. Like close to another 1,000rpm at peak torque. IS20 starts tailing off at 4,000rpm whereas IS38 hold on until 5,000rpm. This is where you really start to notice it when you're doing longer WOT runs.

Finally remember it's hard to compare a TDI vs. TSI in terms of torque. The TDI is going to have torque on tap from low RPM's whereas the petrol engines need to get pushed (and drop a gear or 2) to get the most out of them.

[Nyer]

I'd normally agree about charts, but I'm hoping APR are a trustworthy company and showing it as it is. Besides, it shows worse early performance for stage iii than stage ii, so it's not like they're overselling it.

Who did your IS38 tune? So you have a 0-100 time for the stage ii?

[Nyer]

This is the major trade-off with smaller vs. bigger turbos on a daily driven car. Smaller turbos spool quicker but run out of puff whereas the bigger turbo takes a bit longer to spool but pulls harder. There's not right or wrong. It's all down to personal preference and generally on a daily driver you don't want to go too big as driveability can suffer.

Second point is if you look at the absolute numbers the IS38 makes the same torque as the IS20 at ~200rpm later in the lower rev range. It's a bit of lag which is noticeable but not a massive amount. Compare that to the curve at higher rpms and the IS38 holds on for a LOT longer. Like close to another 1,000rpm at peak torque. IS20 starts tailing off at 4,000rpm whereas IS38 hold on until 5,000rpm. This is where you really start to notice it when you're doing longer WOT runs.

Finally remember it's hard to compare a TDI vs. TSI in terms of torque. The TDI is going to have torque on tap from low RPM's whereas the petrol engines need to get pushed (and drop a gear or 2) to get the most out of them.

It's true about the diesels and low rpm torque. When I started shopping for the tig, I was gobsmacked that VW stopped making them! I know they lied about emissions, but still...

I'm chasing more of a daily drive that's pretty agile, not 1/4 mile runs, so sounds like I should stay with the IS20.

What doesn't help, is the bloody gearbox short shifts 1st so much, it's like half the time when I really want to get going at an intersection it's already in 2nd.

[Wolfsburger]

It's true about the diesels and low rpm torque. When I started shopping for the tig, I was gobsmacked that VW stopped making them! I know they lied about emissions, but still...

I'm chasing more of a daily drive that's pretty agile, not 1/4 mile runs, so sounds like I should stay with the IS20.

What doesn't help, is the bloody gearbox short shifts 1st so much, it's like half the time when I really want to get going at an intersection it's already in 2nd.

Get a TCU tune. Brilliant gearbox once it’s been tuned and will hold the gears and stop short shifting, and increase your launch control to 4000. Get a tenth or so off your 0-100 times as well. No idea if you have a stage 1 ECU tune but if you do it will make for a much more impressive drive with the TCU tune. $1500, and from memory Harding’s performance had deals going for $1100 over the New Year period but not sure if the DQ500 was included, might have only been for the GTi and Golf R box.

[Beedub]

TTE have released an upgraded IS20 that has some impressive figures.
VAG 2.0TSI MQB TTE555 UPGRADE TURBOCHARGER | TTE Global | Performance Motorsport Parts

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[Nyer]

Get a TCU tune. Brilliant gearbox once it’s been tuned and will hold the gears and stop short shifting, and increase your launch control to 4000. Get a tenth or so off your 0-100 times as well. No idea if you have a stage 1 ECU tune but if you do it will make for a much more impressive drive with the TCU tune. $1500, and from memory Harding’s performance had deals going for $1100 over the New Year period but not sure if the DQ500 was included, might have only been for the GTi and Golf R box.

No tune as yet. Am looking at APR engine tune, and think I'll just start with stage 1. It would be ideal to get the TCU tune from the same provider as the engine tune, but it seems APR haven't done a TCU tune for the Tiguan mk2

[Wolfsburger]

No tune as yet. Am looking at APR engine tune, and think I'll just start with stage 1. It would be ideal to get the TCU tune from the same provider as the engine tune, but it seems APR haven't done a TCU tune for the Tiguan mk2

I’d recommend the APR tune. It’s VERY impressive. It’s been said a lot, but stage 1 gives you an almighty wow factor because the power hike is so profound. The other guys on this forum, Tigger and Co. have an assortment of Stage 1 tunes from APR competitors and rate them equally as high. I went APR because it’s close to home and they had a special on Stage 1 MQB tunes.

Expect to gain over a second 0-100 in the tune alone, with the other APR hardware I have I’m down to 5.1 seconds 0-100 in very warm evening conditions. The car is nothing like standard, it becomes a car it should have been in the first place and is very impressive for such a small outlay. APR will be quick to point out that stage 1 is the biggest HP gain you will get out of the EA888, stage 2 and 3 are very impressive in their own right but the HP jump is much more incremental compared to the giant leap from stock to Stage 1.

The tune vastly improves the car in every aspect of driving. Get a TCU tune and it’s even better again.

[Nyer]

I’d recommend the APR tune. It’s VERY impressive. It’s been said a lot, but stage 1 gives you an almighty wow factor because the power hike is so profound. The other guys on this forum, Tigger and Co. have an assortment of Stage 1 tunes from APR competitors and rate them equally as high. I went APR because it’s close to home and they had a special on Stage 1 MQB tunes.

Expect to gain over a second 0-100 in the tune alone, with the other APR hardware I have I’m down to 5.1 seconds 0-100 in very warm evening conditions. The car is nothing like standard, it becomes a car it should have been in the first place and is very impressive for such a small outlay. APR will be quick to point out that stage 1 is the biggest HP gain you will get out of the EA888, stage 2 and 3 are very impressive in their own right but the HP jump is much more incremental compared to the giant leap from stock to Stage 1.

The tune vastly improves the car in every aspect of driving. Get a TCU tune and it’s even better again.

I thought you were getting into the low 4s with your tune and hardware? Most have seen that from someone else here. There's a lot of pages I've read through.....

[Wolfsburger]

I thought you were getting into the low 4s with your tune and hardware? Most have seen that from someone else here. There's a lot of pages I've read through.....

No, I have never stated that, those figures are Stage 3+ and turbo upgrade.
Stage 3 IS38 Tigs on here like Tigger and some of the other boys are seeing low 4’s 0-100. My car is only a Stage 1 with APR main carbon intake, stage 2 pipes, APR turbo muffler delete and APR cast turbo elbow. Stage 2 tune would be next if I was going to continue which is the APR downpipe and stage 2 tune which sees approx 200awkw, then stage 3 is the turbo upgrade, stage 3 tune and front mount for 235-240awkw.

There is approx 10k to get my car from its present 180awkw to 230-240awkw.

[Nyer]

No, I have never stated that, those figures are Stage 3+ and turbo upgrade.
Stage 3 IS38 Tigs on here like Tigger and some of the other boys are seeing low 4’s 0-100. My car is only a Stage 1 with APR main carbon intake, stage 2 pipes, APR turbo muffler delete and APR cast turbo elbow. Stage 2 tune would be next if I was going to continue which is the APR downpipe and stage 2 tune which sees approx 200awkw, then stage 3 is the turbo upgrade, stage 3 tune and front mount for 235-240awkw.

There is approx 10k to get my car from its present 180awkw to 230-240awkw.

I've seen some guys on here talking about hoping to get the IS38 installed and tuned for around $5k+. Guess that's a bit of an underestimate. I'd go $5-6k in tuning, but not really up for spending anything past that.

Your stage 2 pipes, they're different to "APR race downpipes?"

[Wolfsburger]

I've seen some guys on here talking about hoping to get the IS38 installed and tuned for around $5k+. Guess that's a bit of an underestimate. I'd go $5-6k in tuning, but not really up for spending anything past that.

Your stage 2 pipes, they're different to "APR race downpipes?"

Hoping for and getting are two different things. Yes, you can get an IS38 and tune for approx 5 grand, but what about the bits in the middle and at each end?
These prices are current, as of 2020 APR catalogue and as quoted recently.

APR intercooler $1900 (Optional but strongly recommended)
APR catted downpipe $1900 (Pre req for IS3
IS38 Turbo, $1000-$2800
NGK plugs $350
Stage 3 APR IS38 tune $1200
Total labour $1300
TCU tune $1400

On top of this if you don’t already have is APR turbo muffler delete, APR cast elbow, APR main carbon intake and stage 2 carbon pipe and under intake coolant hose at just under $2000 in total.

Can you just bolt on an IS38 and get a tune without doing the above? Yeh, probably.....But don’t expect the same result or the reliability. Most of the well known tune houses won’t want your money if your looking at ways to cost cut rather than fit what their requirements for their stage upgrades are. They R and D the products and know what it takes to get the result. I’ve been in the game a long time and never seen a “just chuck a bigger turbo at it and tune it” scenario.

[iDiesel]

Get a TCU tune and it’s even better again.

Will tuning houses provide a TCU tune on an APR tuned car?