Tiguan IS38 and Big turbo upgrades

[REXman]

Yeah so the more I drive it, the more it just feels like my stage 1 bluefin tune I had.

I’ve driven it around now around all my ‘usual spots’for a squirt and while it pulls better than stock I honestly felt like the stage 1 bluefin tune with no hardware mods felt more aggressive at times.

Will be going back this week to sort out. Can’t be right.

If anyone in Sydney has a stage 1 Tiguan and would like to go for a back to back quick punt for 5 - 10 mins together let me know.

I’m based on north shore but happy to meet at la peruse or near city etc.

[INASNT]

Yeah so the more I drive it, the more it just feels like my stage 1 bluefin tune I had.

I’ve driven it around now around all my ‘usual spots’for a squirt and while it pulls better than stock I honestly felt like the stage 1 bluefin tune with no hardware mods felt more aggressive at times.

Will be going back this week to sort out. Can’t be right.

If anyone in Sydney has a stage 1 Tiguan and would like to go for a back to back quick punt for 5 - 10 mins together let me know.

I’m based on north shore but happy to meet at la peruse or near city etc.

IS38 with the right hardware should be light and day from a stage 1. I suggest you go to Etuners in Sydney to sort your car out

[REXman]

I trust Jim at Tune house to get more out if I want it.

After the break I will look at maybe pushing it a little more to at least get 200KW's..

Am considering getting an intercooler to ensure lower temps and consistent power readings when pushed.

What is the cheapest coolers for our cars?

[tigger73]

There's a decent comparison of MQB intercoolers available on the market here: Mk7 GTI/R Intercooler Comparison

Specs Summary (note bigger is not always better):

Manufacturer	Type	Length (in)	Height (in)	Depth (in)	Frontal Area (in^2)	Core Volume (in^3)	Weight (lbs)	Charge Rows
OEM GTI/Tiguan	DF	24.25	16.25	1.25	394	493	7
OEM R	DF	24.25	16.25	1.37	394	540		29
Airtech	DF		16.45	2.36				24
AMS	DF	24	16	2.25	384	864		27
APR	DF	24	16.25	2.25	390	878	28	25
Burger Motorsports	DF	24	16	2	384	768	26	23
CTS	DF	25	16	2.25	400	900		23
Forge	DF	25.6	16.7	1.97	428	842
HG	DF	24.4	16.1	2	393	786
HPA	DF					961
IE	DF	24	16.4	2.25	394	886	29	24
Mabotech	DF	25	8	3.55	200	710
Magic	DF	24.6	16.14	2.52	397	1001	19.8	27
Mishimoto	DF	24.4	16	2.2	390	859		28
MTC	DF	24.8	16.14	1.97	400	789		22
Revo	DF	23	16.54	2	380	761
Unitronic	DF	23.5	16.5	2	388	776		24
VWR	DF	27	16.14	2.2	436	959		25
Wagner	DF	25.2	16.1	2.5	406	1014	18.5

Mk7R intercoolers are relatively available and also pretty cheap second-hand. However if you're going to all the effort of pulling the front off your car (or paying someone else to do it) you may as well put something half decent in.

Also if you're not increasing the power significantly then a larger intercooler may actually decrease performance as the larger volume will take longer for the car to build boost. The turbo has to fill the volume with air and this takes time - especially with a smaller IS20 turbo.

So unless you're going IS38 I wouldn't go too over the top. Stage 1 or 2 I'd definitely consider installer a Mk7 R intercooler if you were DIY on a budget. For an IS38 stage 2 car I'd look at ~50% increase in volume or 800in^3

[Ozsko]

APR and Bluefin say they get almost 70kws from a tune alone.. crazy!

162 + 70 = 232 when I went to school and if you can get that from a add on box I want to see proof of a dyno sheet from someone who has done it and not Bluefin. They are not the only one to quote the same increase BTW.

[tigger73]

162 + 70 = 232 when I went to school and if you can get that from a add on box I want to see proof of a dyno sheet from someone who has done it and not Bluefin. They are not the only one to quote the same increase BTW.

Both APR and Bluefin/Superchips are ECU tunes. The difference is the APR tune you take your car to an APR dealer and the dealer loads the tune for you. Whereas Superships sends you a hand-held controller and you load on the tune file yourself. The benefit of having the handheld is that you can load the stock file back on whenever you need to. Also you can sell the handheld later and recoup part of the cost of the tune. Whereas APR the tune is "locked" to the car and you lose it when you sell it.

I have not seen back to back APR vs. Superchips on the same dyno/same car/same conditions. However I think many of the stage 1 files are making similar numbers these days. It all depends where these people are buying their base files.

[INASNT]

There's a decent comparison of MQB intercoolers available on the market here: Mk7 GTI/R Intercooler Comparison

Specs Summary (note bigger is not always better):

Manufacturer	Type	Length (in)	Height (in)	Depth (in)	Frontal Area (in^2)	Core Volume (in^3)	Weight (lbs)	Charge Rows
OEM GTI/Tiguan	DF	24.25	16.25	1.25	394	493	7
OEM R	DF	24.25	16.25	1.37	394	540		29
Airtech	DF		16.45	2.36				24
AMS	DF	24	16	2.25	384	864		27
APR	DF	24	16.25	2.25	390	878	28	25
Burger Motorsports	DF	24	16	2	384	768	26	23
CTS	DF	25	16	2.25	400	900		23
Forge	DF	25.6	16.7	1.97	428	842
HG	DF	24.4	16.1	2	393	786
HPA	DF					961
IE	DF	24	16.4	2.25	394	886	29	24
Mabotech	DF	25	8	3.55	200	710
Magic	DF	24.6	16.14	2.52	397	1001	19.8	27
Mishimoto	DF	24.4	16	2.2	390	859		28
MTC	DF	24.8	16.14	1.97	400	789		22
Revo	DF	23	16.54	2	380	761
Unitronic	DF	23.5	16.5	2	388	776		24
VWR	DF	27	16.14	2.2	436	959		25
Wagner	DF	25.2	16.1	2.5	406	1014	18.5

Mk7R intercoolers are relatively available and also pretty cheap second-hand. However if you're going to all the effort of pulling the front off your car (or paying someone else to do it) you may as well put something half decent in.

Also if you're not increasing the power significantly then a larger intercooler may actually decrease performance as the larger volume will take longer for the car to build boost. The turbo has to fill the volume with air and this takes time - especially with a smaller IS20 turbo.

So unless you're going IS38 I wouldn't go too over the top. Stage 1 or 2 I'd definitely consider installer a Mk7 R intercooler if you were DIY on a budget. For an IS38 stage 2 car I'd look at ~50% increase in volume or 800in^3

Its all about core volume. Would not waste time upgrading to a R cooler so minimal difference...

Most of the cost is in the install.. My R33 Skyline I could remove in under 10 mins, VW you need hours.

[REXman]

There's a decent comparison of MQB intercoolers available on the market here: Mk7 GTI/R Intercooler Comparison

Specs Summary (note bigger is not always better):


Mk7R intercoolers are relatively available and also pretty cheap second-hand. However if you're going to all the effort of pulling the front off your car (or paying someone else to do it) you may as well put something half decent in.

Also if you're not increasing the power significantly then a larger intercooler may actually decrease performance as the larger volume will take longer for the car to build boost. The turbo has to fill the volume with air and this takes time - especially with a smaller IS20 turbo.

So unless you're going IS38 I wouldn't go too over the top. Stage 1 or 2 I'd definitely consider installer a Mk7 R intercooler if you were DIY on a budget. For an IS38 stage 2 car I'd look at ~50% increase in volume or 800in^3

That’s an amazing list. Thanks mate.

I’m leaning towards 3 for no particular reason (there’s too many, maybe haha).

1. Burger (BMS) - currently $379us plus shipping.
2. CTS - I have their DP already but $799 + shipping but they do have sales.
3. Integrated Engineering - fancy but a bit expensive.

Anyone of those really standout for an IS38 car?

[REXman]

162 + 70 = 232 when I went to school and if you can get that from a add on box I want to see proof of a dyno sheet from someone who has done it and not Bluefin. They are not the only one to quote the same increase BTW.

I do find it curious that all these years, no one has independently dynoed a base car with the major generic tunes to see both the differences is any, and the actual increase.

[INASNT]

I do find it curious that all these years, no one has independently dynoed a base car with the major generic tunes to see both the differences is any, and the actual increase.

I put up graphs of my stock, stage 1, stage 2 and stage 3 on the same dyno..

I asked asked some of the APR tuned Tigs in Vic to come and run their car on the same dyno as I did to see if there are any differences.. I dont think there will be much overall power differences, maybe slightly different curves.

[Beedub]

That’s an amazing list. Thanks mate.

I’m leaning towards 3 for no particular reason (there’s too many, maybe haha).

1. Burger (BMS) - currently $379us plus shipping.
2. CTS - I have their DP already but $799 + shipping but they do have sales.
3. Integrated Engineering - fancy but a bit expensive.

Anyone of those really standout for an IS38 car?

FYI I bought the Wagner kit from Performance Brands Group for $1528 delivered.
Make sure you get all the fittings with whatever you choose.

[Ozsko]

I put up graphs of my stock, stage 1, stage 2 and stage 3 on the same dyno..

I asked asked some of the APR tuned Tigs in Vic to come and run their car on the same dyno as I did to see if there are any differences.. I dont think there will be much overall power differences, maybe slightly different curves.

I just had a search for those graphs and can't find them, can you post a link please. Can someone tell me what a stage one, two & three tune is please, I thought these terms went out with carbies, heads, cams and extractors.

[tigger73]

I just had a search for those graphs and can't find them, can you post a link please. Can someone tell me what a stage one, two & three tune is please, I thought these terms went out with carbies, heads, cams and extractors.

There's variations, however generally:

Stage 1 - software only
Stage 2 - DP + software
Stage 3 - big turbo + stock engine
Stage 4 - big turbo + built engine

Some say that IS38 swap is stage 2.5 as it's still a "stock" turbo. Anything bigger than a IS38 (hybrid, etc) is a "proper" stage 3. Some people get a bit caught up on it but it's mainly so people know what level of mods your ar has.

[REXman]

Just a quick one I noticed the dyno pull with 238kws was done in June at 13 degrees. Mine was done during the heavy smoke days at 28degrees. Oxygen and heat would not have helped.

Certainly not going to make up the difference but would not be surprised if it got to 200kws. Ps I think that was a Hybrid anyway? Lastly what’s the torque figure?

[tigger73]

Just a quick one I noticed the dyno pull with 238kws was done in June at 13 degrees. Mine was done during the heavy smoke days at 28degrees. Oxygen and heat would not have helped.

Certainly not going to make up the difference but would not be surprised if it got to 200kws. Ps I think that was a Hybrid anyway? Lastly what’s the torque figure?

Yes both smoke and temperature will effect your result as with higher ambient temps you'll have less dense air and potentially less %oxygen with the smoke.

It's really hard (almost impossible) to compare results on different dynos. I have all but given up as there's way too many variables including which gear the car is run in and how the car is strapped down. That's beside the ambient temps/atmospheric conditions of the day.

Yes my 239.8kw is with a IS38 hybrid turbo (TTE475) so you won't see that number just with a stock IS38. If