GTI Edition 40 / Clubsport Thread

[urxtream]

Must have a heavy right foot

Generally speaking, yes! but as I said, I was only doing 30km/hr around the corners this morning, it wasn't "that" aggressive.

[urxtream]

Btw, the aftermarket wheels I'm running are about 4-5kgs lighter each corner. Not sure if that will have an effect on the cornering capabilities or the issue with losing traction. I've been told that lighter wheels on FWD cars might extentuate the under-steer more. More weight is actually better.

[Cruiser]

More weight is actually better.

You might be on to something there, years ago I did a one day rally course with the guys at sideways action and remember them telling us to stand the car on its nose when braking to shift all the weight forward so the front wheels would grip through the corner



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[ringo]

I'm running Hankook S1 Evo2s on my car now. I've got aftermarket rims - Advan Racing RS-DF 19x8.5 ET45. I think I'll be replacing these tyres with Michellin PSS when the time comes. It was definitely under-steering coz when I took a right hand corner this morning, the front just kept pushing to the left and wouldn't really turn in.

My commute to work involves a bit of highway driving and twisty roads. I was prolly doing 30km/hr in the twisties this morning? In dry I think I can tackle those corners with much higher speed.

A wheel alignment sounds like a good idea. Maybe I should get that done and see if that makes any difference.

And by the way, a white Golf R with european plates NOO-000 (from memory) was toying with me on the M2 this morning. I overtook him and then he shot past me on the Lane Cove Road exit. Not sure if his car was stock but it was definitely very quick.

Having owned the MK6 R previously, the only thing I missed about the R was the AWD system in the wet. If it was in the dry, I don't think the R would stand a chance against the 40 Years on twisty roads.

Re the wheel-spin on the wet, this is to be expected at a degree even as stock but to be fair, you are running a JB1 that means nearly 500Nm on the front axle , what did you expect?

Re the wet under-steer this is contrary to my experience so far, the car usually grips nearly just as good although I am not pushing hard in these occasions but considering how good the chassis is, I'd say it's all down to the tyres.

Which in fact is the most important thing on powerful FWD cars like this. While lesser tyres like the Potenza's can be flattered on AWD cars, on such cars they will reveal all their weaknesses. MPSS, SportContact 6, Eagle F1 Asymmetric are all big improvements over the stock Bridgestones and I would imagine also over the Hankooks you run which are are merely an acceptable budget tyre based on the reviews. Already looking forward in changing mine as it really doesn't allow the car's potential to be exploited.

[VRJ]

Do you guys still experience axle tramp / wheel hop in the wet?

[xssiiv]

Do you guys still experience axle tramp / wheel hop in the wet?

I did in the wet and dry but have since installed an 034 Motorsport dogbone insert and it has been great and no longer an issue.

[VRJ]

Thanks. I also had the dog bone fitted but didn't like the vibration so I had it removed. A bit lighter on the right foot resolved it.

[urxtream]

Re the wheel-spin on the wet, this is to be expected at a degree even as stock but to be fair, you are running a JB1 that means nearly 500Nm on the front axle , what did you expect?

Re the wet under-steer this is contrary to my experience so far, the car usually grips nearly just as good although I am not pushing hard in these occasions but considering how good the chassis is, I'd say it's all down to the tyres.

Which in fact is the most important thing on powerful FWD cars like this. While lesser tyres like the Potenza's can be flattered on AWD cars, on such cars they will reveal all their weaknesses. MPSS, SportContact 6, Eagle F1 Asymmetric are all big improvements over the stock Bridgestones and I would imagine also over the Hankooks you run which are are merely an acceptable budget tyre based on the reviews. Already looking forward in changing mine as it really doesn't allow the car's potential to be exploited.

Just ordered a set of Michelin PSS, hopefully that will make a difference.

Will report back after I've put them on.

[xssiiv]

Thanks. I also had the dog bone fitted but didn't like the vibration so I had it removed. A bit lighter on the right foot resolved it.

Was it fitted correctly and version 2? No vibrations and I'm running JB1 with Michelin Pilot Super Sport.

[ringo]

Just ordered a set of Michelin PSS, hopefully that will make a difference.

Will report back after I've put them on.

would love to hear impressions.

[AdamD]

You might want to try a drive in a Renault Sport Trophy R. They absolutely do power oversteer. And at respectably safe speeds on wet roads. Huge fun!

I assume you're referring to the Megane RS Trophy R. Although I've been in several Megane RSs I've not driven a Trophy R, but that doesn't mean that it can subvert the laws of physics I'm afraid. Power oversteer is caused when the rear driven wheels lose traction under power (wheelspin), causing oversteer. This is not physically possible when the rear wheels are not driven.

Oversteer is of course possible with a FWD, but in order for oversteer to occur (as opposed to a four-wheel drift), the rear wheels must be at a greater slip angle than the fronts. This can occur when the rear tyres are unweighted relative to the fronts (i.e. under braking, or even just when rolling if the rear tyres are over a low-friction surface like water or oil). You won't get oversteer under power because under acceleration the weight transfers rearwards, naturally endowing the rear end with more grip than it would otherwise have, so unless there's a major failure (tyre blowout, suspension damage etc), the rear won't step out under these conditions, because it would be practically undriveable at speed if so balanced.

I'm guessing what you're referring to is a four-wheel-drift, which is easy to achieve on a well-balanced and neutral car like the Megane RS, when you're cornering hard without excess weight over either front or rear axle, and the cornering forces exceed the grip available to all tyres. This condition has the car moving around in a more- or less-balanced fashion and can often be adjusted by carefully modulating throttle and brake inputs, and might even require correction to keep the car straight - but it's not power oversteer.

[urxtream]

Just placed an order on a 034Motorsport Dogbone mount. I'm considering doing the CTS Turbo Intake and Downpipe too. Thoughts or experiences?

[Dutch77]

Just placed an order on a 034Motorsport Dogbone mount. I'm considering doing the CTS Turbo Intake and Downpipe too. Thoughts or experiences?

Wouldn't that kind of defeat the purpose of taking the cheaper supposedly warranty proof JB1 route?

The flipside is a good ECU tune plus a downpipe does definitely generate very good results.

[urxtream]

Wouldn't that kind of defeat the purpose of taking the cheaper supposedly warranty proof JB1 route?

The flipside is a good ECU tune plus a downpipe does definitely generate very good results.

I understand where you're coming from but I just spoke to my mechanic (a VW/Audi and Porsche specialist) and he said VW is still able to identify the JB1 even though it's unplugged from the car. I'm gonna be seeing him soon to get the 034 done, so I'll ask him in detail when I see him.

[LibraR]

I assume you're referring to the Megane RS Trophy R. Although I've been in several Megane RSs I've not driven a Trophy R, but that doesn't mean that it can subvert the laws of physics I'm afraid. Power oversteer is caused when the rear driven wheels lose traction under power (wheelspin), causing oversteer. This is not physically possible when the rear wheels are not driven.

Oversteer is of course possible with a FWD, but in order for oversteer to occur (as opposed to a four-wheel drift), the rear wheels must be at a greater slip angle than the fronts. This can occur when the rear tyres are unweighted relative to the fronts (i.e. under braking, or even just when rolling if the rear tyres are over a low-friction surface like water or oil). You won't get oversteer under power because under acceleration the weight transfers rearwards, naturally endowing the rear end with more grip than it would otherwise have, so unless there's a major failure (tyre blowout, suspension damage etc), the rear won't step out under these conditions, because it would be practically undriveable at speed if so balanced.

I'm guessing what you're referring to is a four-wheel-drift, which is easy to achieve on a well-balanced and neutral car like the Megane RS, when you're cornering hard without excess weight over either front or rear axle, and the cornering forces exceed the grip available to all tyres. This condition has the car moving around in a more- or less-balanced fashion and can often be adjusted by carefully modulating throttle and brake inputs, and might even require correction to keep the car straight - but it's not power oversteer.

Hi Adam, yes I was referring to the Trophy R, and didn't mean to offend in any way, or suggest for that matter that that Renault has found a way to subvert the laws of physics.

To ensure we are talking about the same thing, I was certainly referring to the outward slipping of the rear wheels compared to the front during cornering including under power on a wet surface. I accept the premise that under outright acceleration, the weight transfer to the rear makes the loss of traction of driven rear wheels in corners the catalyst for the rear breaking away - power oversteer.

I think I am referring to a slightly different situation, but definitely it occurs under power (lets call it constant or moderately increasing power), and is not related in any way to lift-off oversteer. I am not referring to four wheel drifting as the front is planted and tracking on line.

In the case of the Trophy R, the weighting of the vehicle front to rear (approximately two thirds to the front), and the combination of the PSC2 tyres and the Perfohub/LSD combination and font end geometry is such that it will indeed step the tail out on wet roads, even under power, on corners. This includes in some uphill situations, subject to road geometry etc.. I'm guessing the weight transfer to the rear under power is still small compared to the huge grip afforded by the front end, resulting in the rear moving out on wet roads.

When driving one of these cars, the technique is "never back off", or the lift oft oversteer is dramatic to say the least!! You would need to be very confident to try that on a wet road in one.

The suspension in a Trophy R is adjustable (unique to that model) and can be dialled to achieve either oversteer or understeer - or more correctly I guess, adjust back to neutral any tendancies towards either case.

From the factory they come set up with a slight bias towards the rear stepping out under the circumstances outlined above, but on dry roads, they are very neutral, and but for a little "notice" through the steering that the power is being transferred to the outside wheel by the diff, pulling the nose in towards the apex, it is well masked that they are even FWD. A very balanced thing indeed as you suggest, and significantly different to drive even than the other RS Megane models.

It is worth looking at some of the overseas YouTube vids of various journos driving them on wet race tracks, and you will get the idea of what I am talking about. They are the FWD car that behaves more like a RWD vehicle.

Anyway, hopefully that explains what I was referring to, and places my comments into perspective.