Why is 504 / 507 oil so readily available when it should not be used here?

[kamold]

You missed the point a) in the heading of the alternative oil column.

Australia use fixed services. QI4 in the first page of the service book. See the middle column for fixed services. It says 502. The alternative says 504 but there is a point a) at the top of that column. The matching footnote for point a) reads:

"Alternative engine oil specifications may only be used in fixed services QI1, QI2, QI3, QI4 and QI7, and only when fuel of a quality compliant with EN 228, or fuel of an equivalent quality, is available in the particular country"

EN 228 specifies 10ppm sulphur. Australian fuel does not even come close to complying with this. Australian sulphur limit for 95 and 98 RON is 50ppm, 5x that of EN 228.

Send me your VIN via PM I'll check the PR code for your service regime.
If it's fixed interval then you might need to speak to your service representative.
If it's long life then the logic that's been pointed out applies.

[bradsm87]

Send me your VIN via PM I'll check the PR code for your service regime.
If it's fixed interval then you might need to speak to your service representative.
If it's long life then the logic that's been pointed out applies.

It's QI4 fixed 15k interval. Manual says to use 502. I've sent an enquiry to VW Australia asking what the go is and if in fact the recommendation is now to use 504, if they can supply me with a supplement for the owner's manual.

[kamold]

Sounds like a good course of action.
I don't know anything about what service regimes apply to what vehicles. All I can do is check the PR codes and report what the factory specification is.

[bradsm87]

Sounds like a good course of action.
I don't know anything about what service regimes apply to what vehicles. All I can do is check the PR codes and report what the factory specification is.

Thanks mate. I'll flick you a PM with my VIN tomorrow too.

[Guest001]

I'd be interested to see what's in your book. The Golf and Polo have the page like mine. I'm just interested.

Here you are Read the right hand column which refers to the second pic

Who are we to argue with VW if they say that

[bradsm87]

Here you are Read the right hand column which refers to the second pic

Who are we to argue with VW if they say that

Thanks. It seems that VW contradict themselves as your manual also says that 504/507 oil requires EN 228 quality fuel but you would think they would put a 502 sticker in the engine bay in countries like ours that don't have EN 228 quality fuel. Your manual, like mine, says to use 502 oil for fixed service intervals on vehicles without a particulate filter. I'll share what VW say if/when they respond.

[GolfRWag]

If you look here: VW 507.00, VW 504.00, etc: Volkswagen Motor Oil Specifications Explained - oilspecifications.org 504/507 spec appears at least equal and mostly higher than 502 in all areas of spec.
Seems VW have got contradictory info or VW Aus has been advised by world HQ to go with 504/507 despite what the manual says. My car (my19 Golf R) has 504/507 under the bonnet.

[Guest001]

Storm in a teacup getting stirred by a straw.

No need to delve too deep. Use what VW say to use and if you have trouble you can say "Well I always use your approved and recommended grade of oil" . If you use something else you could be on your own then.

[bradsm87]

Storm in a teacup getting stirred by a straw.

No need to delve too deep. Use what VW say to use and if you have trouble you can say "Well I always use your approved and recommended grade of oil" . If you use something else you could be on your own then.

Yes. The issue is that "what VW say to use" is 502. What I'm trying to ascertain is why they don't use what they say to use themselves. No luck getting past a level one email reader on their end so far.

[Guest001]

Something unusual to say but perhaps too deep a read of the manual is not really beneficial.

The normal thing is that the 502/505 is the "Minimum" spec and it doesnt hurt to exceed it with the 504/507.

If as you say it would damage an engine by using it why would VW put stickers on cars stating to use 504/507 in them

Manuals are generic and a lot in them doesnt always equate to the country you are reading it in.

I dont think its an "Issue" at all especially as my cars have been running on the higher spec oil for 10 years and so far nothing has failed.

[bradsm87]

The normal thing is that the 502/505 is the "Minimum" spec and it doesnt hurt to exceed it with the 504/507.

No they're two different standards that co-exist side-by-side. It doesn't work like 502 being a minimum. 502 is their high SAPS standard and 504 is their low SAPS standard. Low SAPS oil is for use in countries that have low sulphur fuel. High SAPS oil is for use in countries that have high sulphur fuel. High SAPS oil has a higher TBN so can handle high sulphur fuel for longer before it creates acids. This is why BMW specify LL-01 in Australia (VW 502 equiv) rather than LL-04 like they specify in Europe (VW 504 equiv). Exactly the same for Mercedes 229.5 here rather than 229.51 in Europe and it's why VW specify in their owner's manual not to use VW 504 in countries where the fuel does not meet EN 228 and to use 502 instead. See the left column bottom paragraph and right column top paragraph in the page on your manual that you posted. They make it very clear and even re-iterate it in bold.

Manuals are generic and a lot in them doesnt always equate to the country you are reading it in.

Yes it's a global manual which is why it outlines which countries to use 504 in (ones where the fuel complies with EN 228 ) and which countries to use 502 in (ones that don't have fuel that complies with EN 228 ). There is an Australian model supplement to the owner's manual. If VW Australia decided to go against the oil recommendation in the owner's manual (I've still never seen anything official or even written from them), then it should be added to the supplement for the Australian model which only has stuff about seatbelts in it.

I dont think its an "Issue" at all especially as my cars have been running on the higher spec oil for 10 years and so far nothing has failed.

I'm not implying that the different spec will cause anything to fail. Using 504 or low SAPS oil in Australia just goes against both their own manual recommendation and the recommendations of seemingly all of the other vehicle manufacturers as well. I'm just trying to ascertain why seemingly in the VW scene only that owners and workshops alike are going against the grain and against the manual with this one. I understand that in reality, the oil acidity towards the end of the life of the oil is very rarely bad enough to cause any issue but it's just a topic of interest for me and thought it may also be for others. I expected it to be something of interest rather than a debate.

Another thing worth noting is the engine bay label is merely a label of what the car was factory filled with. On the label, there is also an indication to check the owner's manual.

[bradsm87]

All I'm saying is IF VW Australia do in fact go against the manual and recommend 504 oil, they need to publish it somewhere! There is absolutely nothing in writing anywhere to say this.

They need to put a sticker in owner's manuals in the oil section saying something along the lines of "Please see Australian model supplement manual page xx" Then publish their oil information in the Australian model supplement.

[Guest001]

. I expected it to be something of interest rather than a debate.
l.

Seeing as you have replies from 4 members out of 32,124 seems it may not be .

[VR28LT]

my 2020 mk7.5 110tsi has a 502 / 505 sticker in the engine bay and my skoda rs245 has 504 / 507

[Guest001]

my 2020 mk7.5 110tsi has a 502 / 505 sticker in the engine bay and my skoda rs245 has 504 / 507

It seems the higher performance engines are using the higher spec oil. Like the 162's Golf GTI etc