Dual Mass Flywheel DMF Failure 7 speed DSG 100k milage, MK7 Golf 90TSI 2013.

[VWTDI]

Hi Guys,

I was after some advise regarding a DFM failure. The car is a 2013 model, 100k, 7 speed DSG. It is just over 5 years old. I have had the clutch packs replaced under warranty at 40k, and again at 90k. At 100k, the 3rd clutch was beginning to shudder on take off and gear changes (just like the first two clutches), when the DMF failed.

VW Australia have offered a 30% discount on parts, but still want $2500 to replace the DFM. They refuse to do anything about the clutch as they said they inspected the clutch packs and they look fine.

The dealer has admitted they haven't had any MK7 golf with this problem, and that it shouldn't fail at this many km.

My argument is that the previous failed clutches have possibly caused excessive vibrations and reduced the life of the DFM. Also, that the DFM is expected to last longer than 100k regardless of what caused it. Under Australia Consumer Law, the products should last the expected lifespan, and the manufacture should provide a remedy for failures.

What are your guys and gals thoughts on this?

Cheers.

[Guest001]

Hi Guys,

I was after some advise regarding a DFM failure. The car is a 2013 model, 100k, 7 speed DSG. It is just over 5 years old. I have had the clutch packs replaced under warranty at 40k, and again at 90k. At 100k, the 3rd clutch was beginning to shudder on take off and gear changes (just like the first two clutches), when the DMF failed.

VW Australia have offered a 30% discount on parts, but still want $2500 to replace the DFM. They refuse to do anything about the clutch as they said they inspected the clutch packs and they look fine.

The dealer has admitted they haven't had any MK7 golf with this problem, and that it shouldn't fail at this many km.

My argument is that the previous failed clutches have possibly caused excessive vibrations and reduced the life of the DFM. Also, that the DFM is expected to last longer than 100k regardless of what caused it. Under Australia Consumer Law, the products should last the expected lifespan, and the manufacture should provide a remedy for failures.

What are your guys and gals thoughts on this?

Cheers.

How many times have you launch started it

[ABCD]

On a typical manual transmission (and presumably the same on a DSG) the friction surface of the flywheel is a "consumable" like the clutch itself and will eventually need to be replaced. The conventional wisdom used to be that if the clutch needed replacing you would have a low threshold for replacing the flywheel at the same time, the theory being that a brand new clutch and a part worn flywheel would not operate well together and possibly accelerate the wear of both, not to mention the obvious benefits in terms of labour costs. So in short I not surprised the flywheel needs replacing and you are probably right that the issue has been caused by marrying up brand new clutch plates with a part worn flywheel and that the flywheel probably should have been done long ago. The tricky bit will be convincing an outfit like VW this far down the track.

[Lucas_R]

Sounds like you need a second opinion - why not call in to see Pete at Newcastle VW Centre at Wickham and see what he suggests.

If that location is not suitable, try Twilight Automotive at Cardiff (Munibung Road).

[Lucas_R]

And if its of any assistance, Newcastle VW Centre did some work on my old Mk6 Golf GTI when it had about 80,000km on it (they replaced a leaking rear main seal which requires removal of the gearbox) and he said my DMF had some wear on it but still had life left in it. My car was a manual transmission but the lifespan of the flywheel should be similar to your car.

[VWTDI]

Cheers guys. The DFM on this car is actually separate to the clutch plates. They don’t actually contact. I can’t argue about contamination or heat from worn clutch packs as they are housed separately. The dampening springs in the DFM gave way and I’m arguing that is an unreasonable failure on a car with 100k and 5 years old, and potentially caused by the three failed clutches. The car is nearly always driven like a granny as it’s my partners. The VW dealer said they would go back to VW and try again for a remedy so I’ll see how I go and talk to Pete if It doesn’t get resolved. Cheers for the help I’ll keep you guys updated.

[trojon]

"The car is nearly always driven like a granny as it’s my partners."

It sounds to me like the car is being driven as though it's a full automatic, rather than a DSG. It simply should not be going through clutches like this.

Excessive clutch wear like this in a DSG is a symptom of the car being held at lights/intersections on a slope by holding slight pressure on the accelerator - or "riding the clutch" in the old money. The driver needs to learn how to use just the brake when the car is meant to be stationary.

[VWTDI]

"The car is nearly always driven like a granny as it’s my partners."

It sounds to me like the car is being driven as though it's a full automatic, rather than a DSG. It simply should not be going through clutches like this.

Excessive clutch wear like this in a DSG is a symptom of the car being held at lights/intersections on a slope by holding slight pressure on the accelerator - or "riding the clutch" in the old money. The driver needs to learn how to use just the brake when the car is meant to be stationary.

Nope the car is being driven as it should. It's driven very easy by my partner. I've shown her what not to do in a DSG. VW said the previous clutches were faulty (not excessively worn) and upgraded to the new design, twice.

[VWTDI]

I just heard back from the VW dealer. After going back to the VW head office 3 times at my request and explaining to them what my rights are under the Australian Consumer Law, they have agreed to replace the flywheel at no cost to me. Well done VW!

[Eaglehawk]

Looks like all that ACCC action is now starting to actually have an effect. Congrats!

[Sim1]

What did you say to have them cover the costs?

I just heard back from the VW dealer. After going back to the VW head office 3 times at my request and explaining to them what my rights are under the Australian Consumer Law, they have agreed to replace the flywheel at no cost to me. Well done VW!

VWTDI

I am currently in the same predicament. My 2013 Tiguan has been a problem from day 1. Bought brand new from VW dealership and only ever serviced at VW. Within the first year we experienced cracked pistons, that was covered through warranty. Then, the supercharger was rubbing, that again was covered by warranty (had to fight for this one!), another problem with the bearings (that cost us over $2000). Now, we have the loose flywheel which they've quoted $5000 to repair. So all up, the car will have $12000 worth of repairs in 5 years! We have asked VW service to request VW cover the costs for the flywheel. We're waiting for their response.

We are looking at Australian Consumer Law and the ACCC but not sure what to say or who to contact. How did you get them to replace your flywheel at no cost?

Appreciate any advice!

[VWTDI]

VWTDI

I am currently in the same predicament. My 2013 Tiguan has been a problem from day 1. Bought brand new from VW dealership and only ever serviced at VW. Within the first year we experienced cracked pistons, that was covered through warranty. Then, the supercharger was rubbing, that again was covered by warranty (had to fight for this one!), another problem with the bearings (that cost us over $2000). Now, we have the loose flywheel which they've quoted $5000 to repair. So all up, the car will have $12000 worth of repairs in 5 years! We have asked VW service to request VW cover the costs for the flywheel. We're waiting for their response.

We are looking at Australian Consumer Law and the ACCC but not sure what to say or who to contact. How did you get them to replace your flywheel at no cost?

Appreciate any advice!

Looks like you've had a very unlucky run. I ended up playing the angle that my "major fault" (regardless of how it occurred) had occurred within a period of time that a "reasonable consumer" would expect the the fault to not happen.

The guidelines do not specify what a reasonable time is for a product to be fault free, so that is up to interpretation. I argued that at 100,000km (and only 30k on the 3 clutch) a reasonable consumer would expect the clutch to be fault free.

Have a read of this: https://www.accc.gov.au/system/files...airs-guide.pdf

Pg 4 -"In particular, it provides guidance onthe legal rights and obligations createdby consumer guarantees provided bythe ACL. Remedies are available whenthere is a major failure to comply with aconsumer guarantee"

Pg 5 - "A Manufacturer guarantees - they will make available repairfacilities or spare parts for areasonable time"

Pg 12 - "Major failures - A major failure to comply withthe consumer guarantees includesthe following:• a reasonable consumer would nothave bought the vehicle if they hadknown about the full extent of theproblem. For example, no reasonableconsumer would buy a new vehiclewith so many recurring faults thatthe vehicle has spent more time offthe road than on it because severalqualified repairers have been unableto solve the problem"

The dealership made a few counter offers of cost price parts, half price labor etc. but I swung that around and said that was essentially VW admitting that they are responsible for the repairs. I just outright said (on each offer they made) that I am not paying anything for the repairs, and that I will be taking it to the ACCC if they don't sort it out.

Being polite and not a **** definitely helps with conflict. I often play the "If this was you how would you feel" card.

The dealership had to go back to VW head office a few times, so it took about 2 weeks to sort out.

I hope that helps and good luck. Let me know how you go.

Jeremy

[DreamensioN]

It sounds to me like the car is being driven as though it's a full automatic, rather than a DSG.

I've seen people say this multiple times - not only on this forum but others.

What does that even mean? "Driven as though it's an automatic?"

I've got a DSG. I put my foot on the accelerator, the car goes. I put my foot on the brake, the car stops. That's how I would drive an automatic aswell. What's the difference between doing that in a DSG car vs a traditional automatic?

[SgtBatten]

Exercising more patience with the gear changes essentially. Not lifting your foot off completely like a manual but in particular when braking but not stopping being slower to accelerate to allow the mechatronics to set up the next gear.

[Guest001]

I've seen people say this multiple times - not only on this forum but others.

What does that even mean? "Driven as though it's an automatic?"

I've got a DSG. I put my foot on the accelerator, the car goes. I put my foot on the brake, the car stops. That's how I would drive an automatic aswell. What's the difference between doing that in a DSG car vs a traditional automatic?

Do you hold it with the accelerator on a hill like in a slush box? Do you creep in traffic by lifting your foot partially off the brake?

Thats what kills the clutches, but mainly in the dry clutch versions like the DQ200