Is 90 TSI considered a High Performace vehicle in Qld?

[Andych]

You really have to wonder at the stupidity of State Governments in relation to "blanket" bans on things....
My son lives on the Gold Coast and was interested in getting either a Polo 77TSI or Golf 90 TSI but when we started to look into the fine details... they are classed as HIGH POWERED (PERFORMANCE) vehicles because they have a Turbocharger and are NOT diesel powered.
Regardless that the 90 TSI DSG and the Polo have a power to weight ratio of 70kw/tonne he can't drive one unless he "applies" for an exemption. When you read what documentation is required for the exemption it just isn't worth the time and effort.

Does anyone know an Easy way around this???

[AlexRO]

isnt there a european luxury exception list ?

[Diesel_vert]

You really have to wonder at the stupidity of State Governments in relation to "blanket" bans on things....
My son lives on the Gold Coast and was interested in getting either a Polo 77TSI or Golf 90 TSI but when we started to look into the fine details... they are classed as HIGH POWERED (PERFORMANCE) vehicles because they have a Turbocharger and are NOT diesel powered.
Regardless that the 90 TSI DSG and the Polo have a power to weight ratio of 70kw/tonne he can't drive one unless he "applies" for an exemption.

Does anyone know an Easy way around this???

This topic has been already covered in the forums, but to reiterate again...

In QLD, you are eligible for an exemption if:
1. the vehicle is a moderately-powered turbocharged or supercharged -OR-
2. you can demonstrate personal circumstances or severe hardship

Since the Polo and Golf (with the exception of the GTI variants) can be classified as moderately powered performance vehicles, you only need fill out the sections relating to condition 1 (there isn't much to fill out). You do not need to fill in the sections relating to condition 2.

The only supporting documents you need to provide relate to the vehicle's power and weight specification, which can be done easily enough by attaching, say for example, a brochure and highlighting the relevant information with a big red texta or something.

The regulations should be similar for other states as well.

When you read what documentation is required for the exemption it just isn't worth the time and effort.

Read it again carefully.
Download form number F4467 for full details, it should all be very straight forward.

isnt there a european luxury exception list ?

Lol, if there were such a list, it wouldn't be listed there either.

[Andych]

It just makes things much more complicated.. like going for a test drive etc....

As for the exemption list... it is done via Redbook and it is not complete and there are lots more "undetermined" than determined...
The stupidity of it all is that he could quite happily drive away in a Passat R36 with no exception needed but it is illegal for him to drive the 90 TSI Golf or 77TSI Polo...

[craig_the_german]

I read somewhere that in QLD a "P" can't drive a 90TSI Golf but can drive the 77TSI Golf ????????

[Digger11]

I read somewhere that in QLD a "P" can't drive a 90TSI Golf but can drive the 77TSI Golf ????????

Same in Vic. But in Qld you can drive a M3 on P's if you ahve lots of money.

[grtuned]

Same in Vic. But in Qld you can drive a M3 on P's if you ahve lots of money.

That's un Australian mate!!! What an Effen jerk off.

But back on topic each states laws regarding these types of scenarios need to be looked at to avoid total confusion with people it makes no sense you can drive higher power N/A vehicle and be banned from lower power forced induction motor.


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[Diesel_vert]

It just makes things much more complicated.. like going for a test drive...

Well, I'll grant you that.
Bit difficult to get an exemption for a car you haven't bought yet!

Contact the relevant transport authority, as well as the dealer, and see what they have to say on the matter.

As for the exemption list... it is done via Redbook and it is not complete and there are lots more "undetermined" than determined...

As long as the vehicle in question has:

- a turbocharged or supercharged engine that is not diesel powered
- a power-to-weight ratio not more than 125 kW/tonne
- less than 8 cylinders
- a power output not more than 210 kW
- a rotary engine with a capacity not more than 1146cc
- no modification that must be approved by the "Vehicle Standards and Safety Regulation 2010"

... then it is more than likely that it will be eligible for exemption, even if it's eligibility or otherwise is yet to be determined.

I read somewhere that in QLD a "P" can't drive a 90TSI Golf but can drive the 77TSI Golf ????????

See above.

Same in Vic. But in Qld you can drive a M3 on P's if you ahve lots of money.

Similar rules apply for NSW and VIC as it does in QLD.

Also note (for VIC):

NO EXEMPTION IS REQUIRED from VicRoads if the probationary driver is driving an employer’s probationary prohibited vehicle in the course of his or her employment and at the request of his or her employer or where there is an Australian Business Number (ABN) in force in relation to the person’s business. The onus is on the driver to provide evidence to the police if requested that he or she is driving the vehicle for work purposes.

Which would explain why some P platers can drive these cars (albeit temporarily).

it makes no sense you can drive higher power N/A vehicle and be banned from lower power forced induction motor.

The transport authorities have recognised this, which is why they exempt probationary drivers from driving "moderately" turbocharged or supercharged vehicles. Again, getting an exemption for such vehicles is a mere formality, you just have to prove the vehicle meets the required conditions (power-to-weight ratio, etc).

[Andych]

As long as the vehicle in question has:

- a turbocharged or supercharged engine that is not diesel powered
- a power-to-weight ratio not more than 125 kW/tonne
- less than 8 cylinders
- a power output not more than 210 kW
- a rotary engine with a capacity not more than 1146cc
- no modification that must be approved by the "Vehicle Standards and Safety Regulation 2010"

... then it is more than likely that it will be eligible for exemption, even if it's eligibility or otherwise is yet to be determined.


The transport authorities have recognised this, which is why they exempt probationary drivers from driving "moderately" turbocharged or supercharged vehicles. Again, getting an exemption for such vehicles is a mere formality, you just have to prove the vehicle meets the required conditions (power-to-weight ratio, etc).

You would think that they could try a little harder to make all models of the same engine the same though....

[Diesel_vert]

You would think that they could try a little harder to make all models of the same engine the same though...

Yeah, true.
But luckily, it doesn't really matter what the site says. As long as it's not actually banned (e.g. Golf R) and meets the "moderate performance vehicle" conditions, I don't anticipate any problems.

Though I realise that the most immediate issue is, how do you go for a test drive in a car which is sure to be exempt, but without the actual exemption...

Perhaps they'll make an exception?
In any case, make some phone calls tomorrow to TMR and the dealer as well - rather curious in what they have to say.

[Andych]

Though I realise that the most immediate issue is, how do you go for a test drive in a car which is sure to be exempt, but without the actual exemption...

We will do that...the other option at least for the Golf is to take a 103TDI DSG out for a test... the TDI has substantially more torque but it would allow him to gauge the "feel" of the car... The Polo is a different matter again...

[The_Hawk]

I have only hear one *reasonable* reason behind a blanket ban... And that is to make is easy to enforce. In short non diesel FI = exemption. Period.

I would suggest that at the time the restriction was introduced that there really wasn't many FI cars that would have been in the low powered turbo class, in fact I wouldn't be surprised if that was added afterwards.

From what I understand the application process for most vehicles is pretty straight forward and painless.

When it comes to a test drive, by all means run the local authority for clarity, but I would consider it reasonable to test drive a car that is likely to be approved without a permit... Of course I'm not the one with the ticket book

[Digger11]

For a new p plater, i have found even the 77tsi to be a bit quick. Dont just read the specs but take one for a drive. They are amazingly nippy- almost too fast for a new driver imho.
Also the dealer i bought my golf from in vic said to get the 77tsi as the 90 and 118 were not p plate legal.

[Lucas_R]

Funny you mention the 77TSI being nippy. I drove my brothers Skoda Fabia 77TSI back from Sydney yesterday and was amazed at how slow it felt, it always felt like the car was in the wrong gear. I dont think the 5 speed manual is well suited to that engine for around town. On the freeway it was fine but around town it suffered in my opinion.

For a new p plater, i have found even the 77tsi to be a bit quick. Dont just read the specs but take one for a drive. They are amazingly nippy- almost too fast for a new driver imho.
Also the dealer i bought my golf from in vic said to get the 77tsi as the 90 and 118 were not p plate legal.

[Digger11]

Funny you mention the 77TSI being nippy. I drove my brothers Skoda Fabia 77TSI back from Sydney yesterday and was amazed at how slow it felt, it always felt like the car was in the wrong gear. I dont think the 5 speed manual is well suited to that engine for around town. On the freeway it was fine but around town it suffered in my opinion.

I am talking DSG - and 0-50 kmh. It runs out of puff a bit at 110kmh +.

It also doesn't go much faster when revved to the max, compared to about 1/2 throttle.

I am comparing to my Merc E350 and wifes RX350 Lexus - I would back the Golf to win get to the other side of the traffic lights first - it is amazingly sprightly.