The Indicator Stalk Thread

[rs73]

the only reason not introducing right hand side indicator stalk is because there isn't a mandatory ADR (Aust Design Rules) to require indicator stalk on a specific side of the steering column.

if the local government at their destination market do not require so, then don't expect all car makers will go all the way to do stuffs not required to pass compliance... a very good example is if you see any japanese cars with OEM HID, they do not have the headlight washers if they're officially sold in asia etc because the law there does not require it, why bother adding weight, cost, etc to the car?
They only had to add headlight washers for australian market.

Japanese car makers may swap the indicator for europe market but there may be a european car law that requires indicator to be on the left hand side for LHD cars... ?

[Corey_R]

I don't change gears in the middle of a roundabout but before I enter it and I also indicate as I 'm about to enter it and as I leave. And who takes their hands off the wheel to indicate anyway? It's a mere movement of a finger. And who shuffles?

Well, I was extrapolating your comments on not being able to change gears and indicate at the same time. Who shuffles? Someone who actually needs to change gear when exiting a large round-a-bout and has the indicator stalk on the right.

This was about the most complicated situation I could think of. Because if we're just driving along with the wheel in a position where you can reach the indicator stalk with the "mere movement of a finger", then I would wonder what your trouble is driving a manual with the indicator stalk on the left? As you remove your hand from the 9 or 10 O'clock position of the steering wheel to change your gears, you can flick the indicator in that movement... it's really not that hard.
Whereas, in the round-a-bout situation, there is a shuffling of hands that is required if the indicator is on the right - whether a "wheel-feed-shuffle" to keep your right hand near the indicator stalk, or a shuffle between holding the steering wheel with left hand and then right hand to move between indicating and gear changing. This issue isn't experienced in left indicator cars, because you always just leave the right hand on the wheel....


As I said... being a manual driver, the indicator on the left is awesome. If I had a DSG, then I wouldn't care which side it was on.

[Mountainman]

If I had a DSG, then I wouldn't care which side it was on.

And that I can certainly agree with.

[mfl]

As I said... being a manual driver, the indicator on the left is awesome. If I had a DSG, then I wouldn't care which side it was on.

Sorry, but I disagree - the indicator is an annoyance because there are times when changing lanes when:
1. you come to a quick stop in laned traffic and you need to change lanes, ie, select 1st gear and put the indicators on quickly or you miss the gap and
2. when overtaking on country roads, where I need to downshift to a lower gear to overtake. I don't want to stay behind a slower car in 3rd or 4th, while waiting to overtake.

and as others have said, how many lhd cars have their indicators on the right hand side of the steering column. - VW isn't the only culprit though, the XR5 Focus, I test drove had the same issue.

[Corey_R]

mfl, what is your left hand doing before you move it to the gear shifter to change gears?

[pologti18t]

2. when overtaking on country roads, where I need to downshift to a lower gear to overtake. I don't want to stay behind a slower car in 3rd or 4th, while waiting to overtake.

and as others have said, how many lhd cars have their indicators on the right hand side of the steering column. - VW isn't the only culprit though, the XR5 Focus, I test drove had the same issue.

You can't tell me the decision to overtake, change down and indicate all happen in a second?
If you leave enough distance to the car/truck you are going to overtake there is ample time to decide to overtake, change down (if required) and then indicate to pull out. If there isn't then I suggest that there isnt asafe buffer to overtake.

PS... I think you will find that all new european built or market cars have the indicators on the left.

[Mountainman]

With the indicator on the right and the gear change on the left you do have the option of indicating and changing gears at the same time and in traffic it happens often. The present European car set up in Aust doesn't give you that option. It's a poor reflection on all European manufacturers that they are too cheap-skate to spend the money on a conversion simply because the ADR's don't demand it.

And has been said before, car manufacturers don't design their cars the way the Aust Golf and other European sourced models are presented here because they know it is the illogical and ergonomically inferior way.

[Mountainman]

PS... I think you will find that all new european built or market cars have the indicators on the left.

In Europe, of course, and the gear change is on the right.

[rs73]

Then the only logical way is to reject any european product that failed to comply... rather than buying and putting up with it... why are we still here then?

[Mountainman]

Then the only logical way is to reject any european product that failed to comply... rather than buying and putting up with it... why are we still here then?

Of course not. It's not a reflection on the Golf but on the attitude of the European manufacturers. It's no more than a minor annoyance and certainly not a deal breaker.

[mfl]

mfl, what is your left hand doing before you move it to the gear shifter to change gears?

Yes I could put the indicator on first and then the put car in 1st gear if my hand was on the steering wheel at the time,(if not on the gear shift already) but with indicator on the right hand side you can do both at once, which what I am (was) used to doing,

as for overtaking Pologti8t, on most occasions on the narrow winding roads (no overtaking lanes) on that I sometimes drive down the south coast, yes you don't have much time to decide,(in order to allow yourself a safe overtaking buffer) a s even in a GTI. Unless you want to be stuck doing 80km/h in the few 100km/h zones that are available.

on the longer stretches of country roads, I don't even bother down-shifting, there is enough torque in 6th gear to overtake safely.

as others have said its an annoyance, rather than a deal breaker.

[Corey_R]

Well, I'll respectfully disagree with both mfl and Mountainman. I drive a manual Polo GTI, the indicator is on the left, and I love it being there. I don't have either problem that you guys have, and in fact, I feel that it makes driving a manual easier because it is on the left. My right hand always stays on the steering wheel and my left hand operates both the indicators and gear shifts. I don't know, maybe I can think about more things are once or think a little further ahead or faster than you guys, but I really don't have this problem. I would be disappointed if they did change it to the right.

[Idle]

I don't really care much which side they're on, but I DO wish they'd standardise.

We have both and I swap between them (the petrol car is better if just going to the shops) — I always have to think which car I'm in before indicating. When we both had Jap cars it needed no special thought, you just did it with a flick of a finger from the wheel.

After all, it wasn't a problem for the industry to standardise pedal layouts (even Ford accomplished it when they scrapped the Model T) — would it be any harder to do the same with at least the safety-related switchgear?

[mfl]

maybe I can think about more things are once or think a little further ahead or faster than you guys, but I really don't have this problem.

With respect Coreying, maybe our driving styles and road conditions a little different to yours as our opinions and preferences.

[bwen]

Well, I'll respectfully disagree with both mfl and Mountainman. I drive a manual Polo GTI, the indicator is on the left, and I love it being there. I don't have either problem that you guys have, and in fact, I feel that it makes driving a manual easier because it is on the left. My right hand always stays on the steering wheel and my left hand operates both the indicators and gear shifts. I don't know, maybe I can think about more things are once or think a little further ahead or faster than you guys, but I really don't have this problem. I would be disappointed if they did change it to the right.

I think I might be on the same boat as you here, driven cars in the past with the indicator on the right but only recently owned a European car with the indicator on the left with my GTI Pirelli. Even though it's DSG, it's a breeze to drive with my right hand always on the wheel and left hand to indicate, I would imagine if it's a manual it would be far easier to have your right hand dedicated to the steering wheel and the left hand for shifting and indicating. Horses for courses I guess.