The Indicator Stalk Thread

[Corey_R]

There is heated discussion and varying opinions as to which side the indicator stalk should be on.

Some people view the indicator being on the left as per VW cars and many other European cars as being a positive.
Other people view the indicator being on the left as a 'fault' or European manufacturers being lazy.
Other people don't care but just wish it was standardised.

For whatever the reason you may wish to post about Indicator stalks, this is the thread to do it

[entice]

Yep you're correct, friend had a euro built astra and it drove her nuts for the first few months.

INCORRECT
Once Astra went CANBUS (astra AH or astra "h" - the last shape we received in AUS 2005 onwards) the indicators for the australian market were on the RHS.

I know as i owned one astra TS (or G for euro market) and have owned 4 astra AH's....

and I agree, it's pretty pathetic not to change the indicator stalk on a canbus car to suit local market.

Further, I have PA and RVC on my GTI.
in order to use the dipping feature the mirror must be adjusted whilst in reverse (LHS obviously), and left in "L". Sadly, this means that you cant have the dipping mirror and the demisting mirror function operational concurrently...

[Maverick]

INCORRECT
Once Astra went CANBUS (astra AH or astra "h" - the last shape we received in AUS 2005 onwards) the indicators for the australian market were on the RHS.

I know as i owned one astra TS (or G for euro market) and have owned 4 astra AH's....

and I agree, it's pretty pathetic not to change the indicator stalk on a canbus car to suit local market.

What on earth does the indicator stalk location have to do with CAN bus? The stalk doesn't go anywhere near CAN bus!

[pologti18t]

What on earth does the indicator stalk location have to do with CAN bus? The stalk doesn't go anywhere near CAN bus!

It was much easier for holden to engineer a stalk switch with CANBUS apparently.

[Corey_R]

and I agree, it's pretty pathetic not to change the indicator stalk on a canbus car to suit local market.

As I've said numerous times before, the fact that the indicator stalk is on the left side on VW's is a huge positive for me. No more "hand shuffles" are required when going around round-a-bouts (especially in manual cars). I mean when you think about it, all the car controls used frequently are on the left side. The only controls on the right side are what you don't need to interact with during your car trip (wipers, which are auto on all but the more basis cars, headlights which are again auto, mirrors which are mostly set and forget).

So this means you can always keep your right hand on the wheel and use your left hand for operating the gear shifter (manual) and indicator and all other controls (aircon, stereo, nav etc).

[ConR]

I agree with corey..took me a bit to get used to, but I prefer having the indicator on the left...my GTI is a manual, so it's alot easier to flick the signal and fire my hand down to the stickshift with ease..I'll admit though, I still turn on the wipers every now and then when I'm trying to turn left

my right hand never leaves the wheel

[slipshot]

As I've said numerous times before, the fact that the indicator stalk is on the left side on VW's is a huge positive for me. No more "hand shuffles" are required when going around round-a-bouts (especially in manual cars). I mean when you think about it, all the car controls used frequently are on the left side. The only controls on the right side are what you don't need to interact with during your car trip (wipers, which are auto on all but the more basis cars, headlights which are again auto, mirrors which are mostly set and forget).

So this means you can always keep your right hand on the wheel and use your left hand for operating the gear shifter (manual) and indicator and all other controls (aircon, stereo, nav etc).

As a side note, I think some of this goes back to the 60's and 70's in the UK when the sports cars of the time (and maybe all cars in fact) all used to have the indicators on the right hand side of the steering wheel - the reason being that the 'sports' car driver (when the car was not over heated on the side of the road!) could indicate and change gear at the same time.

Sometime later, it was then changed to the left hand side of the steering wheel where every car in the UK has it. I suspect this was down to mainland Europe being left hand drive and maybe they had it on the left, and to aid the conversion, everything remained in the same place.

How much of this is true versus legend I don't know, but it's a good story. And IMO, nice to have the indicators on the left as corey said since that is side where the more frequent items are located in a RHD car...

[Ryan_R]

The only thing I don't like about the indicators is that the Lange Change only flashes 3 times. 5 times would be better. (I know the feature can be disabled). If you go for your license (in VIC), you're technically supposed to indicated for 5 seconds before you even move into the next lane. With the 3 flashes you sortof have to indicate as you start moving so that it doesn't end too soon (I prefer not to change lanes too quickly so i don't hit something I didn't see or look like a hoon)

Indicators on the right were good for not needing two hands on the wheel, but I'm quite used to the being on the left now. The weird thing is that I sometimes forget that the wipers are controlled from the right hand side now.

[Corey_R]

The "Comfort Indicator" feature can be changed to 5 flashes using VCDS. So if you have your own cable, or know someone who does, ask them nicely...

[Stoney!]

Yep you're correct, friend had a euro built astra and it drove her nuts for the first few months.

Last of the Astra's and Vectras had the Indicators placed on the right of the steering colums, which was a nice touch by opel.

However all the buses I drive have them on the left and the golf so I'm used to it now.

Stoney!

[Mountainman]

As I've said numerous times before, the fact that the indicator stalk is on the left side on VW's is a huge positive for me. No more "hand shuffles" are required when going around round-a-bouts (especially in manual cars). I mean when you think about it, all the car controls used frequently are on the left side. The only controls on the right side are what you don't need to interact with during your car trip (wipers, which are auto on all but the more basis cars, headlights which are again auto, mirrors which are mostly set and forget).

So this means you can always keep your right hand on the wheel and use your left hand for operating the gear shifter (manual) and indicator and all other controls (aircon, stereo, nav etc).

Which is a negative in a manual car as I found on the only car I've owned with left hand indicator - my '77 Golf. I never ever came to terms with the fact you can't indicate and change gears at the same time and I had to choose what I'd do first when coming up to a surburban corner - indicate first or change back to 3rd. I notice European cars in Europe don't have the indicators on the right hand side, which to me says it all about the ergonomics. For us, lights switch and indicators on the right and wiper/washers on the left make more sense and the Japanese and Australian manufacturers seem to agree. And so do the American and European manufacturers in their own markets. Keep the indicators away from the gearchange.

[Corey_R]

Which is a negative in a manual car as I found on the only car I've owned with left hand indicator - my '77 Golf. I never ever came to terms with the fact you can't indicate and change gears at the same time and I had to choose what I'd do first when coming up to a surburban corner - indicate first or change back to 3rd. I notice European cars in Europe don't have the indicators on the right hand side, which to me says it all about the ergonomics. For us, lights switch and indicators on the right and wiper/washers on the left make more sense and the Japanese and Australian manufacturers seem to agree. And so do the American and European manufacturers in their own markets. Keep the indicators away from the gearchange.

You've only got two hands man, so it's not like you can change the gear, and steer around a round-a-bout and indicate at the same time anyway... you need to do a hand shuffle to accomplish this if the indicators are on the right hand side, whereas with a left hand indicator, you just have to think ahead...

Btw, I drive a manual VW...

[rs73]

true, I just don't get it - there was an article on news about car review, then as soon as the comments start flowing people got into a good and evil war about indicator stalk? not just one time but I've seen and read it many many times....

gosh, is this how low driver's skill in Australia has become? that if you ended up in a car that has the indicator stalk in a position other than where you prefer it (be it on left or right) then all the driver's 5 senses + common sense stopped functioning and causing them crashing head bang first into a tree/pole?

The last I looked there were heaps of other stuffs that might cause people to crash:
1. Indicator stalk position (right hand vs left hand)
2. Emergency/park brake lever (centre console lever, vs centre console electronic push button vs foot operated, vs hand operated under dash, etc)
3. Headlight switch (steering column stalk vs on dash turn dial switch, etc)
4. Mirror adjustment switch (manual on each corner, vs centre console vs driver side door, vs on dash, etc)
5. Wiper operating stalk (right hand vs left hand) - see #1
6. Hazard light button position (various positions around the dash)
7. Front demister position (various positions around the dash)
8. Spare tyre location (in the boot, hanging on the rear hatch, or hanging from underneath the car, mounted on front bullbar ,etc)
9. etc etc etc

Looking at how many stuffs of things vary from one car to another in the above list, we should all be dead by now because we simply got into an accident when one of those stuffs are not located where they are when we swapped cars.

But hey. we're still here? so what's the problem?

[Mountainman]

You've only got two hands man, so it's not like you can change the gear, and steer around a round-a-bout and indicate at the same time anyway... you need to do a hand shuffle to accomplish this if the indicators are on the right hand side, whereas with a left hand indicator, you just have to think ahead...

Btw, I drive a manual VW...

I don't change gears in the middle of a roundabout but before I enter it and I also indicate as I 'm about to enter it and as I leave. And who takes their hands off the wheel to indicate anyway? It's a mere movement of a finger. And who shuffles?

The proof of the correct set-up is to be found in Europe, North America etc where the indicators are on the other side of the steering wheel from the gearchange. It's the countries like Australia that have to put up with the indifferent attitude of the Europeans to the few markets like ours. The Japanese manage to convert their cars for the American and European markets.

[Mountainman]

true, I just don't get it - there was an article on news about car review, then as soon as the comments start flowing people got into a good and evil war about indicator stalk? not just one time but I've seen and read it many many times....

gosh, is this how low driver's skill in Australia has become? that if you ended up in a car that has the indicator stalk in a position other than where you prefer it (be it on left or right) then all the driver's 5 senses + common sense stopped functioning and causing them crashing head bang first into a tree/pole?

The last I looked there were heaps of other stuffs that might cause people to crash:
1. Indicator stalk position (right hand vs left hand)
2. Emergency/park brake lever (centre console lever, vs centre console electronic push button vs foot operated, vs hand operated under dash, etc)
3. Headlight switch (steering column stalk vs on dash turn dial switch, etc)
4. Mirror adjustment switch (manual on each corner, vs centre console vs driver side door, vs on dash, etc)
5. Wiper operating stalk (right hand vs left hand) - see #1
6. Hazard light button position (various positions around the dash)
7. Front demister position (various positions around the dash)
8. Spare tyre location (in the boot, hanging on the rear hatch, or hanging from underneath the car, mounted on front bullbar ,etc)
9. etc etc etc

Looking at how many stuffs of things vary from one car to another in the above list, we should all be dead by now because we simply got into an accident when one of those stuffs are not located where they are when we swapped cars.

But hey. we're still here? so what's the problem?

It's called good ergonomics and for a car like the Golf that otherwise has such good ergonomics it is a shame that it can be slightly spoilt by the slack or non-caring attutude of its manufacturer.
Afterall the Europeans and Americans get their Golfs with the indicator on the driver's door side. It's not a deal breaker for me, just a small detraction.