First Golf R 420 hp (315kw) build in the world - Australian exclusive!

[Corey_R]

The DSG hasn't ever been limited to a certain torque as far as I'm aware. VW's specifications for the 6sp wet clutch DSG say that 350NM is its maxmium, but over the past several years the tuners have "pushed" the threshold on their tunes and the DSG bit by bit and not run into any problems. Volkswagen themselves are now using it in their 24 hour scirocco race cars without problems....

Obviously, if you're constantly doing the traffic lights GP and using launch control, you're going to put additional strain on the gearbox...

[adzy]

It was just a conservative warning rather than an actual shut down feature like in the SST transmissions.

Some guys are doing 12 second quarter miles with DSG's and the things handle the torque loads with no clutch modification or any other mods. Even handling the extra strain of drag slicks which is quite impressive.

[thezoneR32]

All makes perfect sense really. Stock R32 puts out 320nm. I’m sure they wouldn’t match it up with a gearbox with that narrow a tolerance. But question is how much tolerance is there? I know the temptation to do this would be huge as the gains are such good bang for your buck but at what expense? I'm fairly certain that VW could determine if a blown dsg was caused by excessive torque. And not sure you would want a manual in this car. Can't imagine you would get the best from it trying to slam thru the gears yourself.

Don't get me wrong I'm not having a go, I'm all for modding, just questioning where the limit is.

[Corey_R]

The only answer you are going to get is "350NM". That's Volkswagen's official specification.
Beyond that the best you can hope for is guestimates based on experience. As I've said, there have been people running ~515NM through it for years now, as both the GTI and S3's Stage III kits put out around that.
There are people who have gone well above 600NM (in turbo converted R32's) after replacing the clutches.

[thezoneR32]

yeah cool I just found this thread in mkv.com. C2 Stage 3 Turbo on an R32. They're aiming for 700 hp atw in a dsg! Holy cow thats about 500kw atw!

[bwen]

The only answer you are going to get is "350NM". That's Volkswagen's official specification.
Beyond that the best you can hope for is guestimates based on experience. As I've said, there have been people running ~515NM through it for years now, as both the GTI and S3's Stage III kits put out around that.
There are people who have gone well above 600NM (in turbo converted R32's) after replacing the clutches.

How much strain and pressure have people put through the DSG boxes at >500nm though? I know the people that are running well over 500nm of torque through their DSG boxes have upgraded clutchpacks, flash tunes, thinner oils etc. The power can safely be transfered through the clutches safely but I just think that warranty wise VW don't really condone it

[Guy_H]

WTF, I havent logged on in a while..... that thing is freakin amazing...Leave it to Guy to do the serious biz...nice to see the Alcons on there. Im looking at trading in my Pirelli on one of these bad boys. My question to Guy or anyone in the know over there is
A. when we go this route with tuning the car, ie 315kw at the motor. what is the cost factor of building up a manual box in the R, over a DSG.? Because of the fact that you can put in a twin plate clutch etc and be rest assured that launching the car at the rack all day is not giving you the "i wonder how bad that was vibe".!.
Having a DSG now and having come from a manual Id be happy with either.
But I guess I just wonder over the long run which is best, I had a buddy with a heavy twin in his car and I loved the fact that you could barely push the pedal in but when you stepped off..it bit very hard.... lol, just the effect Id like in an R.
I know its busy over there but please if you get a chance let us know how any clutch \ gearbox improvements go.

All we do on the manual transmission side is put in a Sach's racing single mass flywheel & clutch set. Tested for ~ 550nm of torque & perfectly street driveable. Expensive, but you never get any complaints. Just have to watch it in the 4WD on grippy surfaces - puts a lot of pressure on the clutch.

Rest of the drivetrain is plenty strong enough.

DSG is fine to handle Stage 3 power levels in its stock form. APR have many running around the world. Recently in Japan I managed to experience an S3 & TTS with APR's stage 3 setup's & they were awesome - the shifts were so quick!

If you are going to do a lot of racing or drag launching, you may look at upgrading your DSG clutches like HPA do.

[thezoneR32]

All we do on the manual transmission side is put in a Sach's racing single mass flywheel & clutch set. Tested for ~ 550nm of torque & perfectly street driveable. Expensive, but you never get any complaints. Just have to watch it in the 4WD on grippy surfaces - puts a lot of pressure on the clutch.

Rest of the drivetrain is plenty strong enough.

DSG is fine to handle Stage 3 power levels in its stock form. APR have many running around the world. Recently in Japan I managed to experience an S3 & TTS with APR's stage 3 setup's & they were awesome - the shifts were so quick!

If you are going to do a lot of racing or drag launching, you may look at upgrading your DSG clutches like HPA do.

Guy, last year I got the APR ecu upgrade for my R32 which has increased mid range torque but this page is claiming 198kw & 361nm. I really dont think this how much gain I've got. Is this a recent upgrade do you know?

[aaaaah]

How much strain and pressure have people put through the DSG boxes at >500nm though? I know the people that are running well over 500nm of torque through their DSG boxes have upgraded clutchpacks, flash tunes, thinner oils etc. The power can safely be transfered through the clutches safely but I just think that warranty wise VW don't really condone it

If you are going to Stage 3 you probably aren't all that fussed about warranty.

[dave_r]

How much strain and pressure have people put through the DSG boxes at >500nm though?

All depends on how you drive too. Generally with that level of power you can't just hoon around every day like you can in a stocker because you'll end up getting in serious trouble LOL. I think I could break a stocker much quicker than a stage 2/3 car if that makes sense.

[adzy]

With the amount of stage 3's out there (globally) that are copping a flogging with no clutch upgrades at all; it does prove that the DSG boxes are by no means weak or problematic.

Generally when power levels go up on a modified car you MUST upgrade the clutch or at least a bit more cooling hardware to cope with the added torque loads and the DSG's are proving that they can cope quiet well.... in my opinion.

[robby_jai]

bleh!! my car is a dsg and has its fair share of torque and power and the dsg copes fine. granted when i track the car it is rather easy to cook the DSG!

With the amount of stage 3's out there (globally) that are copping a flogging with no clutch upgrades at all; it does prove that the DSG boxes are by no means weak or problematic.

Generally when power levels go up on a modified car you MUST upgrade the clutch or at least a bit more cooling hardware to cope with the added torque loads and the DSG's are proving that they can cope quiet well.... in my opinion.

[G-rig]

The manual 5spd WRX boxes were much weaker LOL.

bleh!! my car is a dsg and has its fair share of torque and power and the dsg copes fine. granted when i track the car it is rather easy to cook the DSG!

Maybe you need a better intercooler, have you upgraded it (can't remember)?

[adzy]

bleh!! my car is a dsg and has its fair share of torque and power and the dsg copes fine. granted when i track the car it is rather easy to cook the DSG!

Have you overheated yours? I haven't at the track even when doing 20 minute constant thrashings. Have seen SST's overheat real quick though and the ZF tranny's

The manual 5spd WRX boxes were much weaker LOL.

The Evo 6 speeds were weak as piss too! Dont get me started on how many boxes I have blown with past cars

[Corey_R]

Downpipe: $2495 includes the full three sections - divorced downpipe / Cat section / Adapter to catback. If you go to Stage 3 & have the K04 front section we will include it as a trade in with your kit!

Intake: What we have done is modify the water lines & intake pipe a little so we can use the TSI intake head & filter in this case. I understand that this will be available as a production part in the future.

The airboxes are identical - S3 Golf V & Golf R, so no size difference there.

Stage 2 pipe is only for the Golf 6 GTI cam chain motor, not applicable (at this stage) for the FSI motor (golf R).

Intercooler: - certainly our car only has the stock GTI plastic tanked intercooler. The Pirelli & S3 ran an alloy tanked version (both slightly different) so it seems that the R is hobbled from this point slightly. Cold air is good air!

The "other pipes" - have not seen any data on testing - I have seen bench flow testing and there was no increase in flow (and no increase in diameter through the entire pipe - this was MKV pipes) (really because there is no restriction, especially on the pressure side). I would love to see some data that shows what a difference they make!

That's for the reply on this Guy.

Now, you have to come back and give us more pictures and videos and details so that all us poor sods who need to wait until November don't go insane
How is the cat-back going?