Golf R -v- Golf GTI

[WhiteJames]

Borg Warner KO3

I researched the difference between the EA113 and EA888 when considering selling my MKV GTI for the new Mark 6 GTI. Wanted to know if the difference in motors was worthwhile, apart from other goodies like adaptive chassis & EDL/XDS. Nearly all articles were stating that the Mark 6 GTI and Audi 1.8 A3 with EA888 motor run a new version of the Borg Warner KO3 turbo with inlet manifold incorporated into the turbo for better air compression. Here is one such article that comes to mind expounding virtues of the EA888 motor:

New Audi 1.8 TFSI Engine Revealed

Exhaust scavenging/Wastegate rattle and road-rumble on coarse chip bitumen aside - I'm very happy with my 8mth GTI. The Bi-Xenon Swivel lights on low beam are angled too low for my liking ... the stock Halogen could be adjusted making them more useful on low beam around town. A night around tight twisties and on high beam the Bi-Xenon are worth extra. I don't drive in the country much at night atm, so not sure I'd opt for the Bi-Xenon again. Would've like the motorsport wheels, not for $3700, but they would inadvertently add some spring rate to the DCC suspension. In terms of performance, not likely to get the full use of VW motorsport alloys on public roadways. They do offer a different look. DCC and MDI aside, my GTI is optioned up like a stock Golf R DSG. The GTI with 19,000km mostly country miles on the odo has not used a drop of oil ... so no drama with a street driven EA888 motor.

Cheers.
WJ

[Sammy125TDi]

Sammy ... has the HPA Motorsport KW SHS coilovers & small H&R bars met your expectation in terms of handling/comfort mix? Wavetrac diff is a choice piece of equipment.

Cheers.
WJ

The Wavetrac is unbelievable, simply trasforms the car as far as mid and corner exit behaviour goes... The car pulls in tight and just catapults the car forward... you should have a drive..

The HPA SHS have me confused.... They are a bit under sprung/damped for the track. On the street the ride is firm, a little choppy on Sydney roads, sort of bouncey.... they are adjusted within the specified height tolerances... i also find the shocks noisy once cold.... not as good as the V3's on Dads R32... Alot of the noise could also be due to the Whiteline antilift kit which i think has to go... too much NVH...

The H&R bars are better than the whiteline ones i had installed before, i think i'll set the rear to firm next time i hit the track.

Next step is a set of linear rate springs to go with the KW camber tops i have waiting to install.

[Klink1313]

......The GTI with 19,000km mostly country miles on the odo has not used a drop of oil ... so no drama with a street driven EA888 motor....

And you ran the engine in by the log book method or the hard from day 1 method??

[Corey_R]

And you ran the engine in by the log book method or the hard from day 1 method??

WJ's method has been expressed in detail in this thread, including mentioning details in the very first post.
He didn't rev past 4500rpm in the first 2000km, but he also didn't necessarily stick to the log book either. He some how avoided all "bumper-to-bumper city driving" and did lots of free-flowing country roads, and also hill-climbs etc. He'd wait until the engine was warm and then engage in "spirited driving". After a certain number of km's he slowly started raising the revs...

[triode12]

WJ's method has been expressed in detail in this thread, including mentioning details in the very first post.
He didn't rev past 4500rpm in the first 2000km, but he also didn't necessarily stick to the log book either. He some how avoided all "bumper-to-bumper city driving" and did lots of free-flowing country roads, and also hill-climbs etc. He'd wait until the engine was warm and then engage in "spirited driving". After a certain number of km's he slowly started raising the revs...

LOL - all written in tongue-in-cheek.....right??

[Corey_R]

lol... maybe!

I'd actually be good if WJ could summarise his break-in process in the one "bullet point-style" post. I think many people would find it interesting. Though, I think that most people would also find it impossible to achieve - whether because of their day-to-day lifestyle, including work, or because of their patience/self-control.

[dave_r]

Or it being a total waste of time and effort. I put it in the tinfoil hat wearer category!

[Corey_R]

Yeah - from the sounds of things, you, REXman and I all do the same break-in process

For what it's worth, looks like peoples like Guy do the same process too...

[Fab_R]

Or it being a total waste of time and effort. I put it in the tinfoil hat wearer category!

Lol, too funny....yeah bit over the top that anal process..BTW, what is a tinfoil hat wearer?

Yeah - from the sounds of things, you, REXman and I all do the same break-in process

For what it's worth, looks like peoples like Guy do the same process too...

Too often the run in process is over analaysed and performed...threads have been done to death on them.

[dave_r]

Lol, too funny....yeah bit over the top that anal process..BTW, what is a tinfoil hat wearer?

Basically paranoid crazies hehe - Tin foil hat - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

But much better illustrated by doing a Google Images search for "tinfoil hat" lol

[WhiteJames]

Wavetrac LSD

My GTI was run -within the guidelines of the owner’s manual using the paddles 40-50 percent of the time to ensure motor was being loaded and unloaded with turbo on boost most of the time. My GTI rarely sees the light of the day during week-days. The GTI is a weekender and long distance tourer. I’m surprised that this thread has gone this far with me saying that the Golf R is the one to have as a Grand Tourer when that’s what I predominately use my GTI for.

Read quite a bit about the Wavetrac Limited Slip Differential. A new American design that VolkswagenRacing.co.uk are apparently using and selling. Ian @ Rennenhaus had a Wavetrac fitted to his 118TSI at the MOTOR magazine ‘Hot Tuner’ shootout. The diff manages to lock and unlock according to load being applied, rather than having a set locking mechanism. Wavetrac can be used with XDS/EDL electronic diff. XDS saves weight and can be easier on the driveline, but nothing beats a proper LSD.

Wavetrac® Differential - A torque biasing differential with a difference

WaveTrac - LSD - Limited Slip Differentials (New Applications !)

Search the site

The harder polyurethane bushes, engine mounts, anti-lift kits can reduce the NVH with added vibration and noise. Good if you‘re looking for every 10th of a second on the track or at targa. I’d rather stick the OEM rubber bushes, mounts, etc and keep the refined NVH for street use.

Sam:

Linear springs would be the go for the track or targa. Not sure stiffer linear springs would be an ideal match with the comfort/sports HPA Motorsport SHS coilover damping. Best speak with the KW distributor. I’d be inclined to swap them for the poor cousin of the KW Variant 1 - ST coilover supplied by HPA Motorsport for about $800USD + shipping. The ST is basically the same coilover as KW, but much cheaper, without lifetime warranty & made in Canada. You could sell the HPA KW SHS and recoup some of the purchase price to put towards a more aggressively tuned ST coilover. My 2 cents worth. Personally ... I’d be going the KW Comfort Coilovers or the HPA Motorsport KW SHS Coilover for added comfort on long drives.

Cheers
WJ

[Sammy125TDi]

The harder polyurethane bushes, engine mounts, anti-lift kits can reduce the NVH with added vibration and noise. Good if you‘re looking for every 10th of a second on the track or at targa. I’d rather stick the OEM rubber bushes, mounts, etc and keep the refined NVH for street use.

Sam:

Linear springs would be the go for the track or targa. Not sure stiffer linear springs would be an ideal match with the comfort/sports HPA Motorsport SHS coilover damping. Best speak with the KW distributor. I’d be inclined to swap them for the poor cousin of the KW Variant 1 - ST coilover supplied by HPA Motorsport for about $800USD + shipping. The ST is basically the same coilover as KW, but much cheaper, without lifetime warranty & made in Canada. You could sell the HPA KW SHS and recoup some of the purchase price to put towards a more aggressively tuned ST coilover. My 2 cents worth. Personally ... I’d be going the KW Comfort Coilovers or the HPA Motorsport KW SHS Coilover for added comfort on long drives.

Cheers
WJ

I might keep the standard springs in that case WJ. The stock bushes will be going back in with the camber plates install.

I know this has been done 1000 times over.. but with cash to blow... PSS10 or KWV3?

[WhiteJames]

PSS10 -v- KW V3

KW V3 –v- Bilstein PSS10:

Tough choice.

PSS10 Bilstein: Kills the KW V3 for ease of adjustability. Be mindful that the adjustments are for rebound & compression are not independent. This means that set too soft, the coil spring can be underdamped – set too hard and the coil spring are over damped. This could be a factor when driving on the varied sorts of roadways. PSS10 Bilstein do not lower as much as the KW V3, which tends towards less spring rate than the KW V3 as the lower you go, the harder spring rate you require to stop from bottoming out. Most street coilovers have progressive rate springs as PSS10 and KW have, so actual spring rates are hard to come by. Bilstein run high pressure gas versus low pressure gas in the KW V3. Higher pressure gas and Bilstein valving are great for a feedback, but not all the time esp. on country bitumen roadways for extended periods of time (>1-2 hours). Bilstein have inverted pistons which could prove to be stronger for the track. Jury is out on the noise factor on the PSS – some complain, some don’t.

KW V3: Has independent adjustment for low speed compression damping and rebound damping that allows you to tailor ride handling mix. Low speed compression deals with the smooth racetrack bumps. High speed compression valving deals with the bit hits on pot holes, large troughs and culverts, if struck hard and fast enough. KW take much effort to adjust as there is no knob or click (allen key used to open & close the pin & washer spring) and the rear end struts have to be removed for rebound adjustment on the Golf, which is a pain. KW V3 would work better once set to your optimum level of damping esp. on rougher country roadways as the pre-set non-adjustable high-speed compression softens the big blows, regardless of how stiff you have the low speed compression setting. In contrast – the PSS10 seems to be less varied in high and low speed compression – you either have them set on soft, medium or hard. KW V3 are more like a watered down Koni FSD in that they compensate for low-speed and high speed compression hits without any need in change of adjustment. In terms of noise, KW V3 are very quiet – better than OE Volkswagen Sachs dampers, and there are no reported issues with spring bind clonking or tug’n’release noises as can occur on other brands of coilovers. KW V3 may give a bit away in terms of roadway feel to the PSS10 Bilstein due to specific types of valving. KW V3 make up for it in the difference between low and high speed compression ride comfort making them more liveable, if harder to adjust. The KW V3 are basically like a Koni FSD/Eibach Prokit coilover as the springs in KW are Eibach and the valving is the same or very similar to the Koni Strut dampers (as are the adjustment for both KW & Koni).

It may depend on your own preference for what type of feel you prefer and type of adjustment. I like the Koni/KW type of valving and would opt for the KW V3 second time around. They are so good on rough Aus outback roadways with little trade-off in feel on the smoother tarmac.

H&R run similar or the same valving as the Bilstein PSS coilovers. Here is a review of Jose’s R32 (aka JIG on other forum).

Review: H&R Street Performance Coilovers - VW GTI Forum / VW Rabbit Forum / VW R32 Forum / VW Golf Forum - Golfmkv.com

Jose swapped his H&R coilovers (non-adjustable) for KW Clubsport when he supercharged his R32. It’s the same R32 as shown in the latest Feb MOTOR magazine from Ramspeed. PM Jose as he has spent a lot of time with the H&R (aka Bilstein) and KW Clubsport (KW V3 with linear/greater spring rate & camber plates) for a long term review of each.

WHITE JAMES: Suspension & Wheel Reviews - VW GTI Forum / VW Rabbit Forum / VW R32 Forum / VW Golf Forum - Golfmkv.com

Cheers
WJ

[WhiteJames]

KW Hydraulic 7 - Post Rig:

Forgot to mention that KW appear to be the only aftermarket coilover supplier in Germnay with their very own Hydraulic 7 post rig that can replicate racetracks and roadways. F1 teams use this sort of tech.

KW hydraulic 7-Post rig /// For applications in the automobile industry and in motor sports

This may be one reason that KW offer great NVH and do not spring bind clonk or tug'n'release. The machine may take out the trial & error involved in working all this out. Having the machine probably explains why KW coilovers are more expensive than other brands. Also may explain why KW supplies different product codes for DSG and non-DSG Golfs as the DSG adds another 20kg up front on the Golf. The machine should be able to work out the optimum spring and damper rate for each type of Golf and gearbox type.

Cheers
WJ

[Corey_R]

Forgot to mention that KW appear to be the only aftermarket coilover supplier in Germnay with their very own Hydraulic 7 post rig that can replicate racetracks and roadways. F1 teams use this sort of tech.

As do most NASCAR Sprint Cup teams.

I'd be worried if in this day and age people are buying suspension from companies that don't have a 7 post rig!

But then given suspension companies involvement and support in motorsports, including NASCAR where (from the top of my head) both Penske Racing Shocks and Bilstein (maybe others) are both heavily involved, I completely doubt K&W are the only suspension company with a 7 post rig.