Golf R -v- Golf GTI

[Fab_R]

Now, back to the original thread...GTIs are for girls. Ha ha
Go figure.

And R's are for real men. That rules out dave_r

[Ando01]

Hi WJ and other members,

I have been reading a lot of your posts about the R and the small and large sway bar set up. On the h&r site they list the the set up for the R as 26 rear 24 front not 26/22 or 28/24-in your opinion is their recommendation the right way to go? I am running Ku36 tyres.

Also I am possibly looking at some H&R springs for the r, about a 20mm drop, do you think the H&r springs (stock shocks)with the front and rear sways will improve handling perfrmance somewhat? I am guessing the sways will be doing most of the work. I am looking at coils but for later on.

Another option would be koni sport shocks with the H&R springs and sways. I am aware the the ride will be less comfortable but I'm interested in your opinion on the shock/spring set up as no one seems to be going this route with all going coils.

Thanks heaps!

See that Golf R body roll in the pics from drive.com.au. The extra 130kgs being tossed around. The drive.com.au article is in direct contrast to earlier themotorreport.com.au article I posted. I’m siding with drive.com.au article re: Golf R as their observations are akin my views of the Golf R.

Volkswagen Golf R review | hot-hatches

Type & Size of H&R sway bars: Depends on your aims in suspension tuning.

I’d highly recommend the small set of H&R sway bars for a daily driver, esp. on stock Golf R suspension with or without DCC. Set the front on soft and rear on hard.

I prefer the comfort/sport tune with a near neutral - slightly understeer bias for a daily driven street vehicle. The stock Golf R suspension is very similar to the HPA Motorsport KW SHS re: sports/comfort kit, so no change needed on damper rates in this regard imo. The Golf R has a nice GT type of suspension tune without or without DCC.

Small sway bars allow the standard street tyres to work with greater effect on public roadways where grip is limited. Large bars may quickly find the limitations of the street tyres, so an upgrade to semi-slicks maybe required due to the extra rigidity introduced into the chassis in terms of less suspension compliance that aftermarket sway bars offer. Suspension compliance is very important for a street car due to the variety of roadways conditions & gradients being encountered.

If I was running a Golf R, my main aim would be to keep as much as the Golf’s independence in the independence suspension and only tune out some of that push understeer. Others may be looking to run semi slicks & coilovers for best times on the track, targa, or hill climb. In this case you’d want sports coilovers and large sway bars and probably stiffer suspension bushes & engine mounts.

For predominately street driving, small matched set of H&R bars are more than enough for the daily grind as they really tighten up the chassis and cause a notable reduction in independence of one wheel bumps & gradients. The standard ride height of the Golf R is perfect imo.

The H&R adjustable solid sway bars come in a matched set: Small 26mm/22mm and Large 28mm/24mm. You can mix and match (26mm/24mm, etc) – although I’d be inclined to stick to the small size matched set for public roadways and run the front on soft setting and rear on hard setting for a near neutral chassis tune.

H&R do testing on places such as Nurburgring and Hockenheim with drivers that have much more experience than your average punter when it comes to chassis tuning. H&R recommend them as a matched pair or either small or large for best results with adjustments from hard to soft making a very notable difference to chassis tune.

If I was going further in terms of a sporty suspension tune for a daily driver – I’d opt for, in addition to the small H&R bars a set of sports coilovers and rebranded KW V1 coilovers or if on a budget – the ST coilovers from HPA Motorsport for @ $800 USD - otherwise KW V1, KW V2 or V3. I like H&R sway bars as they have Teflon coated bushes that do not make noise, never need oiling and offer a great balance for all types of roadways. I also like the KW kits as they are similar to Koni in their valving & operation and also offer great NVH (no spring bind, tug’n’release or lack of spring rebound clonk in the coilovers).

Cheers
WJ

[WhiteJames]

H&R made an error in recording the sway bar sizes for the Golf R on their website. H&R only offer the 24mm/26mm solid adjustable sway bars for the Golf R as is the case with the Golf R32 (Audi S3 too apparently). The H&R bars should do the trick for mostly dry conditions. After driving the Golf R for a bit around Eastern Creek Raceway in wet conditions, probably no need for the H&R bars in wet conditions (true for most makes of vehicles in the wet and the chassis becomes a little too rigid & offering less body roll). The H&R strut style sports spring & Koni strut damper will be an improvement in handling over the stock OE Golf R, but ride will suffer. The strut style springs with sports dampers tend to be over damped in the low speed compression, okay in the mid section bumps, but may spring bind for larger high speed comrpession bumps and may also tug'n'release at low car park speeds - they also offer varied spring rate when leaning into a corner, taking a bit away from overall control, but adding some fun at public road speeds. Coilovers are a much better alternative. KW would be my first pick or ST coilovers. Erik @ EVL Motorsport has corrected me in that the ST coilovers (like Weitec) are made in Germany, but are tuned for the American market, so may be a tad softer and higher than the KW Variant Coilovers. I stand corrected on two fronts. ST coilovers are also much cheaper than the KW V1 c/o kits. The KW DDC for Dynamic Chassis Control retail for about $3580 from EVL Motorsport if your R has DCC suspension. Edit: Robbie Jai has the H&R Sports Spring and Koni Sports strut dampers on his previous Golf R32 - he went with Bilstein PSS10 coilovers for his Audi S3 - may pay to send him a PM for his views on each setup.
Cheers
WJ

[mebius9]

I drove R the other day after GTI and it does grip heaps better around the corners it felt as grippy as WRX. But somehow, strangely, it didn't 'feel' heaps faster then GTI in a straight line acceleration.

[SilvrFoxX]

I drove R the other day after GTI and it does grip heaps better around the corners it felt as grippy as WRX. But somehow, strangely, it didn't 'feel' heaps faster then GTI in a straight line acceleration.

That is the funny thing with the R is is deceivingly fast not obvious.. also I would hazard a guess the brakes were about 100 times better.. I hate the GTI brakes

[GplusH_R]

That is the funny thing with the R is is deceivingly fast not obvious.. also I would hazard a guess the brakes were about 100 times better.. I hate the GTI brakes

Will totally agree with you on this point SilvrFoxx. Constantly being caught out by the "deceptive" speed of the R, makes me love the brakes all the more

[MkVIGTI]

That is the funny thing with the R is is deceivingly fast not obvious.. also I would hazard a guess the brakes were about 100 times better.. I hate the GTI brakes

Motor or Wheels had a performance test in one of the issues and the GTI pulled up faster than the R in a 100-0 braking test. The stopping distance was shorter too.

[mebius9]

Will totally agree with you on this point SilvrFoxx. Constantly being caught out by the "deceptive" speed of the R, makes me love the brakes all the more

I was hoping R to be more ballistic like WRX or characterful instead of being a GTI+ if you know what I mean...

[SilvrFoxX]

Motor or Wheels had a performance test in one of the issues and the GTI pulled up faster than the R in a 100-0 braking test. The stopping distance was shorter too.

heh I wasn't talking about a measure up I was talking abut application..

[triode12]

I drove R the other day after GTI and it does grip heaps better around the corners it felt as grippy as WRX. But somehow, strangely, it didn't 'feel' heaps faster then GTI in a straight line acceleration.

Were you driving a tuned R or a stock one?

[hooba]

Motor or Wheels had a performance test in one of the issues and the GTI pulled up faster than the R in a 100-0 braking test. The stopping distance was shorter too.

Dude, this is the internet. Don't start bringing independently verified facts into a discussion made up of BS and opinion.

[SilvrFoxX]

Dude, this is the internet. Don't start bringing independently verified facts into a discussion made up of BS and opinion.

Or people who have driven them longer than a track day experiment..

[WhiteJames]

Brake Modulation & Turning Circles

The hard data indicates that the Golf R has about the same stopping distance than the Golf GTI. The issue with the GTI is that the braking is poorly modulated – This is very apparent lower speeds. The Golf GTI brakes come on super-hard after applying more than a slight amount of pedal pressure, jerking the vehicle and its occupants. At car park speeds the jerkiness coupled with brake pad clamping noises would be more at home on a Toyota Dyna Table-Top Truck. This is exacerbated by the DSG gearbox also being jerky at car-park speeds. The whole parallel parking thing detracts from the Golf levels of refinement.

The Golf R on 235/35/19 tyres, regardless of tyre brand feels as if it’s wearing shoes that are that half a size too large. Another thing worth mentioning, that many Golf R owners are only too familiar with, it that the turning circle on the Golf R is crap. 3 point turns were the order of the day with heavier steering over the GTI and GTD, which can become tiresome around town. Factor that in with the Golf R doing its best work between the 100-200kph mark, and it reinforces my claims in the earlier two reviews that the Golf R is the consummate high speed (GT) grand tourer.

Speaking with one of the Volkswagen Australia Marketing big-wigs on the driver training day; the question comes up as to which VAG sports product he’d choose? He’s going with the Sirocco R, after having driven it in Germany. It pulls harder and is lighter to chuck around.

Cheers
WJ

[SilvrFoxX]

I would agree with the summation on brakes, don't get the shoes too big reference.. feels fine to me. I also have no difficulty with parking or turning circle. Over this past weekend I have been paying more attention to how it performs in a more sedate pace and as a cruiser it is just great. It is quiet, smooth and only on occasion did I feel it was in a gear to high.

Again I think too many folk try compare cars on the limit or with apples and oranges. If you like the GTI then appreciation for it will be no disappointment, the R as an all rounder ticks all the boxes for me.

[Njay]

Whoops i post my video on the wrong thread
anyway heres a Golf R vs a chipped Golf GTI (BSR Tuned)