Golf 118 TSI Engine Failures and Service Campaign 24S4

[break]

It's the old case where you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink.

Let them put 95 octane, or even crappy 98 octane (ie. mobil/caltex etc.) in their cars and whine about engine failure while we all use our BP Ultimate and enjoy the benefit of less engine problems and more power.

[Syd118TSI]

If you look at the specs for the MKV Golf GT Manual. The engine had the same torque, and slightly more power (125kw @ 6000rpm vs 118kw @ 5900rpm). But it also consumed 7.7L/100km vs only 6.2L/100km in the 118TSI Manual.

There's some confusion regarding this (I've seen it quoted in reverse) but the AU Volkswagen site actually says:

"The Golf 118TSI Comfortline travels 100km on just 6.5 litres,* or 6.2 litres* with a DSG transmission."

To me it makes perfect sense that with the additional gear of the DSG it should use less fuel.

7.7L/100KM vs 6.5L/100KM is still a substancial difference, but given that the GT was presented as a sporty drive it's understandable that they'd sacrifice a little economy for speed (0.3 seconds quicker on the 0-100) as those buying the GT badge weren't doing so specifically with fuel economy in mind.

[dopey]

It just comes down to the tuning. The GT had a richer tune, and probably ran a little more boost. That's why it was more powerful and used more fuel. Same as when you get an APR flash, really.

Put simply, the 118TSI is running a tune that is too lean for our poor quality fuel. It would be absolutely fine overseas where the 95+RON fuel is cleaner, but it's on too much of a fine line for this countries fuel supply, hence the cases of pinging and detonation that are occuring. The new update they are doing will simply be a "safer" computer tune - I will be interested to see how much richer they run now.

I really hope this new tune puts an end to the broken engine stories, it's a real shame to see this happening to an otherwise fantastic car.

[Zaul]

Unless I'm mistaken, there is no refinery in Adelaide. All fuel is now shipped in from interstate. The only refinery that did exist at Port Stanvac is about to become a desalination plant.

[nicandlance]

Mine went in this morning and I got it back in around 40 minutes. Was also given a free voucher for a car wash.
Hopefully I can relax now and not have to worry about my engine blowing up!

[Zaul]

Is there scientific basis for people to recommend BPUlitmate as THE fuel to be using in their new VW's? I have read the thread that Coreying posted here and aside from dating back to pre mark VI engines, most of the posts seem to be anecdotal rather than based on science or content of the fuel.

How/what have people noticed in terms of their Mk VI's and preference for certain brands?

Also what is CaltexVortex98 like in a GTI?


Mods, feel free to move this if it's too off topic and should live an another area.

[Corey_R]

At any BP Ultimate bowser, there is a brochure with information on the fuel and their guarantees.

But there have also been "scientific tests" conducted by various car magazines and shows in various countries (including Australia) which have compared identical cars on rolling roads with fuel from the different manufacturers and performed tests for both power and economy. BP Ultimate has always gone very well in these.

I don't have any specific links on hand unfortunately. I do remember a Fifth Gear episode a few years back where they did this with the help of local lab coats and came to the same conclusion of BP Ultimate being superior (even to other 98 octane fuels, including Shell).

Someone in a thread here who worked at the refinaries also stated that BP Ultimate is the only 98 octane fuel available in Australia which is "refined to be a 98 octane fuel", rather than is taken from the "regular unleaded fuel" and then has octane and other additives added to it. Again, no idea if this is true or not.

What I will say is that with my personal experience, with decent consistency, after I have filled me car up for a few tanks in a row of Caltex Vortex 98, on cold starts the car "struggles" whilst idling and sounds as though it's going to stall. It doesn't sound pretty. Changing back to BP Ultimate immediately resolves this issue. I'm in "The Hills Shire" area of Sydney and get my fuel from a few different Caltex/Woolworths and BP stations in the area, so it's not like it's a single case of a single service station having their pump labelled wrong or having dirty tanks etc.

[Syd118TSI]

It's a shame that BP don't have a deal with one of the major Supermarket chains like Caltex and Shell do (or am I wrong on that front?).

[Corey_R]

They don't. But then personally I'd prefer that our grocery prices hadn't increased to compensate for the fact that they're giving you a discount on fuel

In addition, the efficency provided by BP Ultimate usually makes up for the fact that it is 4c per Litre more expensive than Caltex or Shell due to your "shopping ticket discount".

[Diesel_vert]

Firstly, the facts (or what we know so far).

There is manufacturer requirement of all Mk5 Golfs with FSI motors to use 98 to obtain maximum performance, whereas the only Mk6 Golf with that same requirement is the 199 kW motor in the Golf R.

I believe it was evo magazine (God bless them) who wrote two articles regarding fuels; firstly, it confirmed BP (UK) Ultimate's and Shell (UK) V-Power's claim of maintaining engine cleanliness; and secondly, it showed a comparison between 95 and 98 on a Mk5 Golf GTI and BMW M5, showing 98 having higher power and torque outputs on the GTI, but stuff all difference on the M5. Not exactly a "scientific" test but interesting nonetheless.

BP (AUS) Ultimate does indeed have a higher concentration of cleansing additives than premium, that much we do know. And in Australia, there is no difference in sulphur content between 95 and 98 (capped at 50 ppm). I don't know why 95 is derided as "filthy dirty". The only difference is the RON, MON and additive concentration. And anyway, both are "filthy dirty" compared to European petrol (capped at 10 ppm).

Now for the subjective bit - perceived difference? Well if the Mk5 Golf FSI is designed to use 98, then of course it'll feel lethargic on 95 - that's where the unsubstantiated "filthy dirty" reputation of 95 began on this forum. I also believe (with some skepticism) that BP Ultimate does keep the engine clean. Personally I've not noticed any major differences from the four majors (I always fill up at places with a high turnover), though I freely admit I always try to use BP Ultimate, and failing that, Mobil Synergy 8000 - just because I'm an enthusiast and I believe I can tell the difference.

[parso_rex]

I'd be interested to see what they have modified in the Flash. Have they just taken timing out to stop detonation or have they also added fuel and dropped boost cooling the intake charge as well.
If I had the car before and after I could tell you.

This was happening on a few Subaru 2.5L Turbo motors a couple of years ago. The Euro 4 rating that they had to comply with at the time meant they had to ditch the older 2L motors forged pistons and opt for hypereutectic cast alloy instead. The pistons started to drop like flies cracking ringlands at the slightest hint of detonation. A lot of motors ended up being replaced with new long or crate motors - no rebuilds.
I hope this isn't s similar story with the TSI's

[Syd118TSI]

They don't. But then personally I'd prefer that our grocery prices hadn't increased to compensate for the fact that they're giving you a discount on fuel

Agree 100% - Though my other half likes shopping at a particular supermarket so I'm always going to have access to the 4c off per litre 'saving' (or should I say rebate?).

In addition, the efficency provided by BP Ultimate usually makes up for the fact that it is 4c per Litre more expensive than Caltex or Shell due to your "shopping ticket discount".

I was also thinking of the convenience of using other service stations

[Zaul]

Thanks Diesel-vert.

While I don't want to be pedantic that EVO Magazone article compares fuels in the UK, not here. I would assume they'd be refined to a higher standard that what happens here.

I'm guessing there's no recent comparison of local fuels.

[Idle]

Agree 100% -
I was also thinking of the convenience of using other service stations

Plus that the "4c off" is often less than that — around our way the competition is often 2c under their posted price, so it's only "2c off".

Add to that the time you waste queueing on "discount cycle" days and it doesn't look much of a saving at all.

[Syd118TSI]

Plus that the "4c off" is often less than that — around our way the competition is often 2c under their posted price, so it's only "2c off".

Add to that the time you waste queueing on "discount cycle" days and it doesn't look much of a saving at all.

Yeah, you're exactly right. I just remembered another BP that I pass on my way to and from work, as well as on other common routes that I undertake. On more than one occassion I've not bothered to stop at a Woolworths branded Petrol station because it was excessively busy only to find the BP 1km or so down the road completely empty with a petrol price only 2c greater than the discounted Woolworths price. The convenience alone is obviously more than worth the minor 'saving'.