What to buy? GTI or R20

[Corey_R]

Interesting how they will be available in DCT (DSG) and the MY10 has twin scroll turbos.

Just wanna point out that it has a twin scroll turbo, not turbos. They changed from a twin turbo to a single turbo with twin-scroll. (Sorry if that was picky, I've just seen lots of people on the net confused over this change).

[G-rig]

Just wanna point out that it has a twin scroll turbo, not turbos. They changed from a twin turbo to a single turbo with twin-scroll. (Sorry if that was picky, I've just seen lots of people on the net confused over this change).

Sorry my bad.

Hard to know which is better though until you drive one. The technology is good, but have heard that twin scroll is better turbo technology, but having twin turbos is better.

It's probably just something to keep the M3 at the top of the food chain as a modded 135i is faster. It's rumored that the M3 will go to a twin scroll or twin turbo not sure on this.

[Corey_R]

Yeah I know what you mean. Twin scroll is a better turbo, but is it better than having two normal turbos?

Well, based on the 'official figures', the single twin-scroll has the same power and same torque, but the torque is usable over a wider range.
Having said that, it's well known that the previous twin-turbo 135i motor was underrated by the 'official figures'.

But in other news, BMW are bring back the 'is' models. I can't remember whether it'll be a 135is or 335is or both, but apparently they'll have even more power and torque (not sure if there is a mechnical difference or just an ECU different though).

[Timbo]

Re: What to buy? GTI or R20

135...hmmm...I had a long test drive of the 135 before I bought the S3. Three big issues - ride; traction and looks. IMHO, the S3 is superior in all three areas.

Ride - the 135 is not a comfortable daily drive. I suspect this is due to the run-flats, bit unless you live on a billiard table, it will drive you nuts.

Traction - all that power but no LSD, even as an option. Madness! Those I know who have bought the for any spirited driving have ended up spending $5k on a third party LSD. this is all about protecting the M3.

Looks - err, late '80s Hyundai... Just my opinion

...but I love that engine!

Finally, price: the price difference between a 135 with reasonable options, and the S3 I bought was near as dammit to $30k!!

[G-rig]

But in other news, BMW are bring back the 'is' models. I can't remember whether it'll be a 135is or 335is or both, but apparently they'll have even more power and torque (not sure if there is a mechnical difference or just an ECU different though).

I always loved the E36 318is, looked awesome at the time with the BMW 17" 5 spokes...

Still don't like Chris Bangle designs, but the 135i is tollerable due to it's performance. Could be slightly better in the looks department.

The bad ride is mostly due to the runflats i've heard, which i would just swap for normal tyres once they run out (or immediately) would save some money too and not hard to get a plug/repair kit.

A better car with less options > lesser car with more options IMO, especially come time to sell.

[cube_3]

The Performace of the R as a stock setup looks to impressive and I am sure there will be flash upgrades etc. to enhance the R further. It looks like the first R acceleration video is now on youtube showing 0 to 100 being reached in about 5 to 5.5 second:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gvDDXbbZgtM

DISCLAIMER: The above video shows acceleration from 0 to 120kms per hour and is assumed to be done in a foreign country where the speed reached is legal. Don't click on the link if you think its an illegal activity.

[dave_r]

I currently dont have an undercover park at work but been parking at the shops (undercover), don't know how long that will work. Was wondering if White holds up better outside?

Yeh I park outside at work, but it'll get washed once a week so all good. Blue isn't too hard to maintain. Everyone says white is easier but it isn't really cos it looks dirtier much quicker. Excluding black which is a prick and silver which is so boring even dirt hides, they're all much of a muchness.

I'm surprised by the comments that the S3 is nicer inside than the VW's? Are you guys comparing them to Mk6 models or Mk5? Cos IMO the S3 is better than Mk5 but not Mk6.

[gregozedobe]

DISCLAIMER: The above video shows acceleration from 0 to 120kms per hour and is assumed to be done in a foreign country where the speed reached is legal. Don't click on the link if you think its an illegal activity.

Does the Northern Territory count as a "foreign country" ?

I thought they had a 130Kmh limit on some roads there (not quite the same as "unrestricted", but better than 100/110Kmh)

[Corey_R]

I thought they had a 130Kmh limit on some roads there (not quite the same as "unrestricted", but better than 100/110Kmh)

Yeah, NT has 130kph on the roads which were previously unrestricted.

On a side note, and contrary to what the government would like us to believe, on the first full year that the 130kph speed limit was enforced, the death toll rose in NT by 25% !!!

[Nath]

Yeah, NT has 130kph on the roads which were previously unrestricted.

On a side note, and contrary to what the government would like us to believe, on the first full year that the 130kph speed limit was enforced, the death toll rose in NT by 25% !!!

Yeah I remember driving up to Darwin for work back in 2004 (I think) when there were no speed limits, love that black circle with a line through it. Anyway most of the road toll at the time were tourists (international and domestic) who flogged their cars at insane speeds and ran off the road or into a roo, the locals travelled fast but at a speed they were comfortable with. Sad really that the locals get punished because of tourists. Have to say as well that the NT has the best roads in Aus that I have driven on, well maintained and smooth as, have to be with all those road trains.

[Corey_R]

Yeah - I'm personally not sure who the tolls were attributed to, but the rise in toll after the introduction of speed limit is due to drivers falling asleep/microsleeps/boredom etc - the speed limit is now basically too low for roads so long and featureless.

[elisiX]

So today I went to the dyno day arranged by Derek and Guy @ Mainline, and what a day it was. It was bloody hot but they managed to pull some impressive figures from the 12+ cars available from the VAG stable. Everything from Pirelli's, S3's, TT-S' and GTI's. To say that the experience has thrown a massive spanner in the works for me is a severe underestimate.

Both observing the numbers and driving various Stage 1 through to Stage 3 Audi S3 and TT-S' today has given me a desire for more. I think that means switching from the GTI to the R20. 200KW and AWD will give an incredible base to work from and i've seen that first hand today in the TT-S.

I've said it before, but I am quite sure that if the pricing is in fact about the $62-65k mark for an R on the road (DSG 5DR w/ Leather/Xenon standard), ill make the jump from the $57k highly specced GTI to the R. It might not have a sunroof or Nav but I can always retro fit the Nav through Derek.

Anyway, while I didn't get to drive an actual R today, I did get the chance to experience both its competition and what I assume will be similar performance. And I think it would be a worthy change if the pricing turns out to be what we are assuming at this point in time. Lets see how it turns out.

[Nath]

Yeah the write up by Robby was good reading, interesting to note the differences in the tunes and the big surprise with GIAC.... not good....

Link is here for those interested and not already read up.

http://www.golfmkv.com/forums/showthread.php?t=112223

So today I went to the dyno day arranged by Derek and Guy @ Mainline, and what a day it was. It was bloody hot but they managed to pull some impressive figures from the 12+ cars available from the VAG stable. Everything from Pirelli's, S3's, TT-S' and GTI's. To say that the experience has thrown a massive spanner in the works for me is a severe underestimate.

Both observing the numbers and driving various Stage 1 through to Stage 3 Audi S3 and TT-S' today has given me a desire for more. I think that means switching from the GTI to the R20. 200KW and AWD will give an incredible base to work from and i've seen that first hand today in the TT-S.

I've said it before, but I am quite sure that if the pricing is in fact about the $62-65k mark for an R on the road (DSG 5DR w/ Leather/Xenon standard), ill make the jump from the $57k highly specced GTI to the R. It might not have a sunroof or Nav but I can always retro fit the Nav through Derek.

Anyway, while I didn't get to drive an actual R today, I did get the chance to experience both its competition and what I assume will be similar performance. And I think it would be a worthy change if the pricing turns out to be what we are assuming at this point in time. Lets see how it turns out.

[Timbo]

Yeah the write up by Robby was good reading, interesting to note the differences in the tunes and the big surprise with GIAC.... not good....

Nath, I'm not sure what you mean about "GIAC ... not good...". There are two GIAC flashed cars in that chart -- the pink one is Sloth's. He has a HPFP plus a few other bits, and looks pretty decent to my eye. Mine is the other, in black, stock other than standard St1 GIAC. Looking at the curves, I reckon the addition of a HPFP plus GIAC tune to suit would make it comparable with the APR cars running HPFP (eg, MACCAA's)

The Revo tune is another thing again. Big torque low down, suggesting high, early boost. That's pretty familiar to me, as I had a Polo GTI with Revo, and it had a very similar power curve (just couldn't put it to ground as well as an S3 )

Not intending to start a pointless chip war. In fact, my point is that in the same conditions with the same mods, the off-the-shelf flashes are actually quite similar these days, so one's decision might best be served by looking at other issues such as service, support and price!

[Nath]

Not trying to say that the GIAC is bad, just referring to the comment Rob that

GIAC - This one is Weird. It was making less torque than the stock S3 until about 4850rpm mark.. where it picks up... but still makes much less than the REVO and APR. Power weirdly also seems to make less than the STOCK S3 until the upper reaches of the rev range around 5600 rpm.

By not good I didnt mean bad I meant wierd in that it doesnt appear to make more than stock until high revs, that being said I have no idea what a stock or chipped S3 drives like as I've never driven one.

Sounds like the heat wasnt good for any of the cars, and this may have impacted more on the GIAC, but if it takes 5600rpm to produce more than what you got it from the show room with a mod then isnt this something that you'd want to look at to see if thats normal or there are problems.

Anyway dont own one, prob never will and I'd be more than happy to have one with a GIAC chip if someone was willing to hand one over.

From the graph it seems the GIAC maintains the power longer than any of the other tunes, just takes some time to get there.