What to buy? GTI or R20

[Corey_R]

If I got the R, i'd not be spending the money on wheels/suspension that I hope to do with the GTI. But it would still get flashed.

Exactly, that's the thing. By the time you get a GTI, get the stage II parts, and then get new suspension and wheels and maybe even brakes, you'd have spent as much as an R. Sure, the suspension/wheels/brakes more than likely would end up being better than the R's stock stuff, but then the R would still be faster in most road circumstances. But the point is, the GTI isn't the value that the R is one you're at that point.

The GTI was always better value than the R32 though, as there wasn't any 'baby steps' in performance upgrades with the R32. It was an all or nothing turbo conversion/suspension/brakes package that would cost $15 to 20k+.

[elisiX]

Once I went over $45k on the GTI (and ended up 10k higher) it became less and less of a value proposition against the R.

But I like my creature comforts as much as I like performance. And seeing as the GTI is no slow coach, I made the decision I did.

I felt and still feel that its a nice even mix of the two. Happy to look at the R on release and revisit the comparison though.

[G-rig]

Exactly, that's the thing. By the time you get a GTI, get the stage II parts, and then get new suspension and wheels and maybe even brakes, you'd have spent as much as an R. Sure, the suspension/wheels/brakes more than likely would end up being better than the R's stock stuff, but then the R would still be faster in most road circumstances. But the point is, the GTI isn't the value that the R is one you're at that point.

I think a lot of people have leant their lesson last time spending on a lot of mods and unable to put the power down with FWD.

The GTI was always better value than the R32 though, as there wasn't any 'baby steps' in performance upgrades with the R32. It was an all or nothing turbo conversion/suspension/brakes package that would cost $15 to 20k+.

GTI stock is good value, but stock for stock the R32 is better and faster. Better handling & quality of drive, sounds better and more unique/cool.

Once you tick too many options or do too many mods on the GTI you may as well get an R/R32.

[Corey_R]

What I mean with the MKV GTI vs MKV R32 debate is that you could purchase a MKV GTI and making it QUICKER than the R32 for less than the price of the R32. Whether you're a talented enough driver to pilot that GTI is another thing. There is no way that will be possible with the MK6 GTI vs R though.

[STV4SYT]

Tis the same with teh 118's 90's 70's too many options and you may as well buy the car that comes with the higher spec. Extras dont equate to higher resale value. The typical persoj that buys a2, 3 or 4 year old ca bases what they will pay on what the base model at the time was, any extras are seen as a bonus.

[backdoc]

GTI stock is good value, but stock for stock the R32 is better and faster. Better handling & quality of drive, sounds better and more unique/cool.

That's what I loved about the R32. It was amazing how much street cred (deserved or not) that thing attracted. I got so many guys coming up to me to talk about it. Especially when it was reviewed on Top Gear and whooped the 130i.

I have to say though, I don't reckon the R looks that different to the GTI. Exhausts and that's it. The silver snout of the R32 at least helped a bit. The Ford Focus RS is so obviously not Nana's car, but the GTI and R just look almost too much like Sleepers. I hope my driving will give it away

[G-rig]

What I mean with the MKV GTI vs MKV R32 debate is that you could purchase a MKV GTI and making it QUICKER than the R32 for less than the price of the R32. Whether you're a talented enough driver to pilot that GTI is another thing. There is no way that will be possible with the MK6 GTI vs R though.

Yeah that's true but quicker isn't always better but would still be a bit of fun and agree that they are great value. Getting bigger numbers on the dyno is nice but doesn't really mean as much on the road with take offs and wheelspin etc.

Another guy on GolfMKV got 14.4 in his R32 only mods being APR retune and Milltek catback so they aren't really slow just the power delivery is different.

As backdoc says it's about the fun factor and overal package, just not which one is slightly faster. Also turn a lot of heads in the R, people love the sound and it's great seeing the look on peoples face when you tell them you got a V6 in a hatch. Big engines in small cars are cool.

[Zed!]

I guess as they are now both 2lT, it comes down to cost and awd vs fwd. I would guess 90% of people would prefer the awd? Sure you can easily mod a Gti to be quicker than a Mark V R32, but driving an over-powered fwd car isn't fun, it's scary. My mate could probably drive my 1998 magna quicker than I could drive my R32, but I'll bet u, I'm having more fun. If you want a serious performance car, get an awd or rwd period. fwd cars still have torque steer, they still understeer etc etc even the new generation of fwds e.g focus rs with their fancy revoknuckle suspension.

[STV4SYT]

e.g focus rs with their fancy revoknuckle suspension.

Or the mk6 with the XDL??

Apparently the Focus and its fancy suspension is still not great for getting the power down.

[Corey_R]

... but driving an over-powered fwd car isn't fun, it's scary... fwd cars still have torque steer, they still understeer etc etc even the new generation of fwds e.g focus rs with their fancy revoknuckle suspension.

Um... I'm taking it from these comments you haven't driven a VW Golf GTI.
Even with 300KW of power and 515NM of torque they don't have torque steer!

Don't believe me? Read this review of the APR SEMA Golf GTI (Stage III) by Motor Magazine. The writer went from "almost falling off my chair in hysterical laughter" at the idea of that much power going through FWD to proclaiming "There's bugger all torque steer. Bloody amazing".

The reason is that unlike the cars you mentioned, the Golf GTI has equal length drive shafts between the front left and right wheels and is properly balanced etc.

[MurphyTheElf]

Um... I'm taking it from these comments you haven't driven a VW Golf GTI.
Even with 300KW of power and 515NM of torque they don't have torque steer!

Rubbish. My GTI torque steers. It's nowhere near as prominent as other high-powered FWD cars I've driven (like the Focus XR5, Mondeo XR5, Mazda 3 MPS and the previous GTI) but it's still there. When the drive and steering is shared by the same wheels, it's virtually impossible to extinguish entirely. When a FWD car experiences uneven grip on takeoff, it's going to scuttle sideways a little, simple as that. Fancy electronic trickery just reduces it.

[Glennb]

That's what I loved about the R32. It was amazing how much street cred (deserved or not) that thing attracted. I got so many guys coming up to me to talk about it. Especially when it was reviewed on Top Gear and whooped the 130i.

I have to say though, I don't reckon the R looks that different to the GTI. Exhausts and that's it. The silver snout of the R32 at least helped a bit. The Ford Focus RS is so obviously not Nana's car, but the GTI and R just look almost too much like Sleepers. I hope my driving will give it away

The Sleeper look is fine by me. If I wanted big bonnet scoops and rear wings, then i'd be looking at the Mitsu/Subaru/Mazda cars, but none of them appeal to me.

[backdoc]

The Sleeper look is fine by me. If I wanted big bonnet scoops and rear wings, then i'd be looking at the Mitsu/Subaru/Mazda cars, but none of them appeal to me.

No they are ugly, but I mean it could look a little tougher.........couldn't it?

[Corey_R]

When a FWD car experiences uneven grip on takeoff, it's going to scuttle sideways a little, simple as that. Fancy electronic trickery just reduces it.

That's not torque steer, that's uneven grip. Rear wheel drive cars also suffer from that issue, albeit it with differing effects, when they're accelerating with uneven grip between wheels the left rear and right rear wheels.

[MurphyTheElf]

That's not torque steer, that's uneven grip. Rear wheel drive cars also suffer from that issue, albeit it with differing effects, when they're accelerating with uneven grip between wheels the left rear and right rear wheels.

OK, so it may not necessarily be related to torque, but higher torque increases the chance of loss of grip, which exacerbates the effects. The end result is the same - lane divergence. AWD cars can still exhibit this effect, while RWD cars will fishtail slightly but generally stay in a straight line.