Performance enhancement and warranty

[Corey_R]

The OEM ECU is generally tuned by Volkswagen for best mix of economy/power/reliability/drivability. Why mess with a good thing?

Cheers.
WJ

I'm sorry, but I don't agree with this. Firstly one of the reasons for aftermarket ECU's throughout the past few decades has been for improved economy. I'm not sure specifically if any for VW cars are marketted to this reason, but you could argue that the APR tunes provide a much better economy to power and driveability balance based on the fact that the can provide 20% more power and 30% more torque (in Golf GTI), whilst not changing your fuel consumption in regular driving.
VW have obviously been tuning the the majority of their cars with a much greater emphasis on reliability since there is so much power to be gained from simply an ECU flash - hence the balance on the others is of a lower priority.

Now, if the issues with the 118TSI piston issues are really due to the fuel mixture being too lean, VW are putting more focus into the economy and possibly sacrificing a bit of reliability.


But regardless of all that stuff - your comment seems a bit funny given how many posts you've put around the place about aftermarket suspension and stuff - wouldn't you think that VW also put in the best mix of attributes in relation to that ?

[G-rig]

The N/A tunes don't seem more economical, but either way probably comes down to how you drive whether it's stock or not. More power doesn't come from adding more air does it?

[WhiteJames]

Agree of the power improvement versus economy of chipping up. Best BFYB improvement on the turbo vehicle. No argument there. For fuel economy per se, std ECU should be getting you better overall economy in harder types of driving with motor under load. More compressed air = more fuel = more power = less economy when digging deeper into the recesses of the motor rev range.

I think drivability is also an important issue in addition to reliability in the stock ECU tune. Not lighting up the tyres in the lower two gears refers to driveability. I've driven a few stage I and stage II GTI's and they are really no more fun to drive than my GTI with suspension upgrades. As for straight line performance ... ECU upgrade may gain another @ 0.5 sec to 100kph sprint; suspension upgrades on MKV GTI gained about 0.2-0.3sec in 0-100kph sprint as the GTI offered higher grip levels on launch and in first two gears (ie: no burning up the front tyres).

Speaking of suspension: My driveshaft/CV had to be replaced under warranty with full disclosure to the service guys on the suspension upgrades re: KW V3 and H&R bars. Well suspension upgrades are a bit difficult to hide come replacement of CV joint. Dealer replaced the CV/driveshaft without fuss or hassle. Having said that, wheel bearings may not be covered under warranty, esp if you have the incorrect wheel offset that may create extra stress on the driveshaft axles. My MKV GTI had huffs with same offset and circumfrance so no drama in that respect either.

The OEM suspension on the MKV GTI was crap. Too underdamped & understeery. That's what lead me and Volksewagen to change it. Not once, but twice. It was my quest to my financial detriment to find the best street handling package for the MKV Golf. Hence the White James Suspension thread being created to assist others in this area. In this quest, I also had the opportunity to sample most popular ECU tunes on the market (APR, GIAC, Bluefin, Revo).

Notice the power/torque difference ain't that much from Mark V to Mark VI. But a lot of work has gone into the upgrading of the Mark 6 suspension - new damper rates, spring rate, thicker rear bar, XDS diff, stiffer chassis adding 40kg of weight to the vehicle. Volkswagen have made huge leaps and bounds in this area, so much so, that my Mark 6 GTI arriving with ACC will not require any suspension enhancements (or power enchancements for that matter). Power is plentiful for me, drivability is great, and looking to improve fuel & oil ecomony on longer trips over the old MKV GTI.

Cheers.
WJ

[265coupe]

That's true but they would have to prove the oil/work was at fault, and good independents would use the right oils.

It's still good to have a nice relationship with the dealer for warranty repairs/RATTLES in the first year or two but they aren't magical fairies doing a much better job.

In my experience it's the other way around. I have had to prove that faults/defects are covered by warranty. So far not with VW but classically with Honda. Faded red paint at 3 years. My fault as the car was parked in the weather each working day! WTF, was I supposed to keep it wrapped in cotton wool FFS. It's a car. If the paint fades in 3 years then it's faulty. I asked them to fix it. Nope wouldn't do it. And you can't get blood from a stone. So unless you want a protracted legal battle it gets hard.

The agent has all the trump cards. You have the faulty/ broken car and want it fixed. They say no because of such and such. That's a stalemate with you the loser. So your cars f*cked and off the road and you're catching the bus to consumer affairs and struggling with your brief of evidence for comsumer court. No thanks! And don't say it doesn't happen.

And you're right, they're not magical fairies. But they are factory trained and backed. If they're the ones who serviced it then it's gotta be easier come time to make a warranty claim.

I don't get this 'good relationship' BS. They're a business. You might see them twice a year for an hour each time (oil change). Don't kid yourself. They will be nice but they don't know you (other than from the booking) and won't remember you a day after the service. 10 cars a day, 50 a week, 2500 a year. You're just one of them. There's only 1 kind of relationship you have with them. Businesslike. Make the booking over the phone, turn up, smile, talk for a couple of minutes, wait an hour, drink a terrible coffee, pay the bill and drive away. Done. I doubt you would even recognise your mechanic if he was in a lineup. You won't have spoken to him. He's the one in oily overalls out the back. You'll be talking to the airhead in the tie at the front counter. If the jobs been done right you shouldn't see your dealer for another 15000km.

Am I missing something or are there a breed of VW owners that have become dealer groupies. You know, 1st name basis with all the staff and spending every sat morning going over the newest wheel nuts in the showroom.

Dealer servicing (as long as it fairly priced which I believe is the case with VW) is the cheapest mechanical insurance you can buy.

[Corey_R]

Actually - my VW dealer knows me by sight and name... but hey

Also - Honda servicing have been known to be difficult - at least from stories on current affair programs and the experience of friends.

[Sharkie]

The OEM ECU is generally tuned by Volkswagen for best mix of economy/power/reliability/drivability. Why mess with a good thing?

This is incorrect ....

VAG often differentiates between models based on engine output (OEM ECU Tunes) .....


example 125TSI and 147TSI Tiguans have identical drivetrains .... every single engine component is identical, both have the same MK6 GTI engine .... however 1 makes 125kw and the other 147kw ....

Why???? .... to make some suckers (sorry, loyal VW customers) pay more for 1 than the other .....

These days market perception is more important in its drive to make money and if they can report better fuel consumption by making an engine run leaner than it really should they will do so. Obviously will take into account the faliure rate in doing so. So if they expect 1 out of every 100 1.4TSIs to fail because they run too lean then they will view that as acceptable IMO.

[WhiteJames]

Same torque output on both Tiguans. 125kW, from memory, makes its peak power earlier. Paying more for the 147kW Tiguan involves receiving extra standard equipment. Similar thing with the Euro -v- Aus Golf R. One is detuned slightly, although in the R's case, it's stated to be hot weather & crap fuel.

Cheers.
WJ

[265coupe]

[QUOTE=coreying;478587]Actually - my VW dealer knows me by sight and name... but hey

Really? And what colour wheel nuts are on offer this month? Maybe you could check this Saturday morning. (that's a joke if you couldn't tell)

[Sharkie]

Same torque output on both Tiguans. Paying more for the 147kW Tiguan involves receiving extra standard equipment. Similar thing with the Euro -v- Aus Golf R.

Cheers.
WJ

Yes, but the extra equipment do not equate to the difference in price .... I've studied it in detail .....

Other examples of VAG ECU magic ...

A4 2.0TFSI - 132kw and 155kw = identical engines ....

Polo GTI & Polo GTI Cup - 110kw and 132kw = identical drivetrains

Audi TT (old model) - 110kw, 132kw, 169kw = identical drivetrains

VAG OEM ECU tunes between some models have very little to do with the best mix of economy/power/reliability/drivability .... its all got to do with squeezing more money from the poor clueless customer ....

[Sharkie]

Same torque output on both Tiguans. 125kW, from memory, makes its peak power earlier.

Actually, also no .... overlay the engine output graphs and you will see that they are identical up to about 4200rmin .... this is where the 125 is detuned (restricted) and the 147 not.

[265coupe]

Sharkie, thanks for the comparos. What it does show is that VW engines are often good for many more horses than delivered in a particular state of tune. And reliably.

I have no doubt that the 118TSi has the strength to be a 147TSi in modded form.

My biggest concern, and the only one stopping me from doing a ECU upgrade, is the hassle involved if there is an engine related warranty claim that VWA could dishonour on the basis of 'Unapproved device or fitting'.

Cause I don't feel like getting the same tilt tray to take my broken car from the dealer to the ECU agent with a request to conduct the $10000 repair. How about a poll to rate my chances of them footing the bill?

[gerhard]

I read on this forum that aftermarket tunes don't affect warranty. .

That's where you are going wrong - you believed an untruth.

I can't really see the point of 5 pages of arguing to and fro about it - it won't change anything.

And the last person I want to be on first name terms with is a car dealership....

If you get a tune on your 118TSI be prepared to pay extra for the device/functionality that lets you turn the tune off and run the standard/replicated standard map.

If your engine blows, revert the tune. If you don't spout on a public forum about how great the car goes with the tune, who would know you have one?

[265coupe]

You're quoting out of context. Don't work for A Current Affair by chance?

Read the sentence following the quote and you should get it. If not, then why bother reading this thread again.

[ozgti]

If I change the backbox, will it void any warranty?

[Corey_R]

What is the backbox?

VW won't warrant any part that you change (obviously), and they won't warrant any problem caused by any part that you change. But just because you change one thing doesn't mean the entire warranty is voided. If you seats and the engine dies, obviously they'll cover the engine!