Timing chain and tensioner discussion and issues

[Johnbu]

Just got my GTI back from the dealership service department. It has set me back over $5200.
It is interesting that when I mentioned that the timing chain tensioner failure is a known problem with TSI engines, the service manager denied any knowledge of this despite me referring to the many many post and articles you see when you google "vw timing chain tensioner".
I am now in the process of writing a letter to VGA to see what they have to say.

Did you contact VWA before you fixed the engine?

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

[JAYDEE]

Unfortunately I did not contact VWA.
It was after I had arranged with the dealer to do the repair that I found out about the issue with the Timing Chain Tensioner in these post as well as other sites that documented the issue.

I have had an initial response to the letter that I did send to VWA saying that it has been referred to the management team so they can discuss the matter further.

[milevets]

Picked the car up on Saturday morning after leaving it with Audi since Thursday afternoon - chain rattle fixed and im $950 poorer. Couldn't be bothered playing games with VW (my local dealer in particular is difficult), so Audi replaced the tensioner, metal timing case cover plate + bolts, crank bolt, and one of the plastic chain guides for me. There was also some special gasket/sealant on the invoice too which i understand is for sealing the cover plate.

Now i can rest easy knowing that my engine has the updated parts fitted to it. List of parts fitted shown below:

Hi Lucas_R,

May I know which Audi dealer did you go to get this replace, the one in Newcastle? I thought Audi do not service VW cars.

Can anyone recommend where we can get it replaced? Thanks.

Regards,
Stephen

[brad]

Hi Lucas_R,

May I know which Audi dealer did you go to get this replace, the one in Newcastle? I thought Audi do not service VW cars.

Can anyone recommend where we can get it replaced? Thanks.

Regards,
Stephen

I think his brother worked there at the time.

Where do you live?

[dylan1988]

Slipped Timing Chain! What To Do Next?

Hey guys,

I purchased a 2010 model (STOCK) Volkswagen Golf GTI MKVI (Late 2009 build, old revision timing chain and guide) in March of this year. The car has had full Volkswagen service history shared across Sydney City Volkswagen (previously Barloworld) at Mascot, and the Denlo Group Volkswagen in Parramatta for the last 7 years since new. I am the second owner, the original owner took great care of the vehicle, ensuring that it was always serviced on time. He kept every service invoice from day 1!

Flash forward to 2 weeks ago, I noticed on startup one morning that the car shuttered for 2-3 seconds or so whilst cranking, the car started and drove fine otherwise and I thought nothing of it. The next morning, I tried starting and I got nothing. The lights were on, sparks were igniting, and it was cranking... Just wouldn't start. I had a mechanic have a look at it, he carried out a compression test on all cylinders. He came up with nothing! I would later find that this is a result of a slipped timing chain hence the 0 psi readings...

I had the car towed to a local mechanic in Kogarah (recommended by a friend). Thus far, he has not checked the car out as he is really busy at the moment. But, it is looking as if I'll need to source another engine (that's what he has implied anyways) based upon the few initial crank tests...

I've called VW Village in Kensington, the guys there said that they could try and change the timing chain, guide etc. at a cost of $1100 (inclusive of labour + parts). If the car still fails to start, then they carry out a top end rebuild which is a further $3-$5K (rough quote as they would need to see the extent of the damage).

Question time:
1. Should I bother having the timing chain replaced? Or would it be a waste of money at this point?

2. Also, I've heard bad stories about rebuilds where the engine dies again a few short months later. Do rebuilds effectively resolve any of the possible engine issues that I may have?

3. I am contemplating an engine swap, but can only seem to find a few on eBay for roughly $4k delivered to the mechanic. The mechanic will charge a further $1200 to install the engine. So all up close to $5500, are there any other places I should be looking to source one cheaper? (There doesn't seem to be any on Gumtree either)

4. Finally, which mechanic should I have carry out the engine swap or possible rebuild?

I have done quite an extensive read up on this issue, it comes down to poor design, and a little bit of bad luck. The timing chain (culprit) was later revised in 2012 I believe..

Here a few sources in which my research has derived from:

http://www.vwwatercooled.com/forums/f112/timing-chain-tensioner-discussion-issues-35551-9.html

2.0TSI (EA88 Timing chain tensioner failures

I'd just like to know what my next step should be, and the cheapest way forward. I'd love to have me GTI back on the road again, life just isn't the same without her!

Any help would be greatly appreciated,

Dylan

[dylan1988]

Bump! Surely someone has experienced a slipped timing chain, and have either rebuilt or swapped the engine.

[clio]

Buy a new tensioner/guide, install and sit back with some popcorn.

If no good - assess engine damage $ and also your faith in mechanic to rebuild.

If rebuild isn't economical or viable then source used engine, you'll have the new tensioner at hand to re-use if the used engine is 2010/2011 build.

Given your tensioner failed at very low rpm the damage may not be severe.

[clio]

Also - if the mechanic is "really busy at the moment" then question the level of attention you will get. The last thing you want is a rushed job any way you go.

[Bora Sport]

The first thing you need to do is determine if the slipped timing chain has caused any valves to to hit any of the pistons. If so this would likely result in bent valves. Bent valves can cause lack of compression. It the timing can be reset and the engine hasn't been damaged ie good compression on all four cylinders, then happy days, replace the tensioner, and chain if the mechanic deems it necessary. Even if you have one or a couple of bent valves, a full rebuild shouldn't be necessary, just cylinder head off, replace the bent valve(s) and off you go.

[JAYDEE]

Hi Dylan1988,

I was somewhat lucky, my GTI engine only required replacement of valves, cyl. head, timing case, chain, tensioner and some other bits.

The repair was done at the dealers service dept. Total cost $5,213. Interestingly, they discounted some labour costs as I had always had the car serviced there.

If you need to replace cylinders as well as top end then get a replacement engine otherwise you should be looking at 5k to 6k to repair similar to mine.

You could try Bob Mol Motors in Taren Point if you are not happy with the mechanic in Kogarah.
Bob Mol Motors

There is a good article in AustralianCar.Reviews that covers 2008-12 GTI chain tensioner retainer failure.
AustralianCar.Reviews: #1 for Reviews and Used Car Valuations

PS. I am still waiting for a reply from VWA after sending a letter of complaint.

[Tuan]

Hey guys,

I purchased a 2010 model (STOCK) Volkswagen Golf GTI MKVI (Late 2009 build, old revision timing chain and guide) in March of this year. The car has had full Volkswagen service history shared across Sydney City Volkswagen (previously Barloworld) at Mascot, and the Denlo Group Volkswagen in Parramatta for the last 7 years since new. I am the second owner, the original owner took great care of the vehicle, ensuring that it was always serviced on time. He kept every service invoice from day 1!

Take a stab at getting one of the dealers to sort it out for you and aim for some goodwill off the final bill. Some have been lucky and have had some if not all of it covered.

[dylan1988]

Thanks for all of the replies guys, I really do appreciate it! Well, unfortunately for me the mechanic at Car Master, Kogarah has already started working on the car as of today. So if I pull out now, I'll lose a few hundred or so in labour. Isn't it funny how it took him nearly 2 weeks to start working on it. He asked if I could stop by for a few minutes to discuss his findings thus far...

At this point he is still insisting that I source another engine, he said that my engine has a lot of carbon built up in the valves. He also said that all valves are bent, but he will have to continue to take the head off to assess the damage. I asked "why can't you rebuild it?" At which point he said that he can, if that's what I want to do. Now he hasn't gotten back to me with a figure yet for the repair/rebuild, he said that he'll call me on Wednesday to let me know when he has the top of the engine off. He also asked if I'd like to sell it as is, he seemed very keen to buy it off me. My gut feeling is that this guy is making the damage out to be a lot worse than what it actually is.

What I'll do is take a few photos on Wednesday when he has the top of the engine off, post them up on the thread. Perhaps you guys will be able to confirm what he is saying. I'd like to know for sure, before proceeding with the rebuild. I'd also like to know whether or not I'm being jacked from behind!

[clio]

Carbon build up is completely normal in direct injection engines and easily cleaned, even as a DIY. It's not a reason for the mechanic to suggest the engine is toast.

[Tuan]

Carbon buildup is on its own a costly job due to the labour involved, but once the manifold/head is taken off for inspection, it shouldn't add substantially to the final bill ...

Convenient that he is asking you whether you want to sell it though, may have an ulterior motive (or not) ... hard to say.

Has he done many rebuilds/transplants for this model ?

[brad]

What made you choose CarMaster? Whenever I've driven past there it's looked dirty and disorganised. Has he done a VW timing chain / head before?
carbon on the inlets is perfectly normal. If the head is off it's easy to clean. About 3-4 hours work - even quicker if the valves are out.


JAYDEE - Bob Mols - is Bob still there? Does he still own the 350 HQ Monaro with column auto? I did part of my apprenticeship there about 35 years back.