Golf V GT 1.4L TSI - service centre says I need 4 new injectors?!?!?!?!?!

[warhead]

Hi guys

My 8yr old GT manual has just come up with a check engine light. I first noticed the light flashing for a few seconds and then it went solid and has stayed solid the last few times I tried to start the car, except for this morning, it flashed again for about 10 seconds before going solid once more. I brought it into the nearest dealer to get it looked at and they just called me back and said the diagnostic computer is reporting misfiring on all 4 cylinders and hence I would need 4 new injectors at a whopping cost of at least $2,700!!!

I find it very hard to believe that the car can go from driving fine 1 minute to needing 4 new injectors the next. One or two injectors I can understand, but for all of them to fail simultaneously is a bit absurd.

Car has done just over 76,000km and has been regularly serviced at a mix of VW service centres at various dealerships and VW specialist garages like BWA Auto and European Autotech.

I had planned on selling this car later this year and this breakdown is highly unwelcome.

Has anyone had similar issues with their cars? I'm hoping that the mechanic at the service centre just didn't know how to diagnose the faults and was just simply going with the error reports. They've already hinted that replacing the injectors might not be the end of my problems

[grtuned]

Diagnosing issues like this can be a long process once the coils and plugs have been eliminated as the cause. I like yourself find it difficult to believe all injectors at the same time decided to fail
The GT unlike the other motors were less prone to catastrophic engine failure which first began with signs of misfire faults before the Pistons and rings began to break.
I'd be very concerned to what you approve regarding service work if they gave you a response that once we replace the injectors you still may have issues! I wouldn't believe a word there saying regarding the injectors being the cause.
Have the carried out compression checks or leak down test?
Have they told you the injectors are blocked or are the injectors failing due to electrical issues?
Have you ever replaced your coils?
Did you replace your plugs at the 60,000km interval?
I would be ruling out all these before removing the intake manifold and checking the injectors.
And I'm sure some company out there can test the injectors for a small fee to completely rule them out or give you a definite answer if they are in fact faulty.

[brad]

If all 4 injectors have truly stopped working then I'd be looking at a part that is common to the injectors such as a wiring loom. 4 injectors failing at once is very uncommon.

HAve they given you a price breakdown as there would only be 8 hours labour (max) and the injectors ~$350.

I'm very much doubting their ability to diagnose. The process should be check spark, check compression, check fueling. Spark or compression would be my picks as this is the first time I've heard somebody complain about injectors on that engine.

[Mattlock]

Agree with everything said here so far. I had a cylinder 1 misfire that was nothing to do with the injectors.


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[warhead]

Agree with everything said here so far. I had a cylinder 1 misfire that was nothing to do with the injectors.
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I picked up the car as is today from the service centre and got to speak with the mechanic who diagnosed the fault. Here's what he had to say:

1. Cylinder 3 had several misfires, only does it intermittently
2. He tried swapping spark plugs and coil packs to no avail
3. Compression tested OK
4. Fuel check OK
5. Conclusion - must be injector? Might be faulty/damaged/clogged

Now comes the explanation on why I need 4 new injectors; VW made changes to the design over the injector and subsequently made the old/original version obsolete. These new designs use a different spray pattern and cannot be mixed with the original designs; need to change one, must change them all.

I guess if it's a clogged injector, is it possible to clean it rather than replace it? I suppose without paying a mechanic the labour hours to dismantle the rear part of the engine to get to the injector to have a look at it, it's all kind of guess work from here on out?

[Mattlock]

I picked up the car as is today from the service centre and got to speak with the mechanic who diagnosed the fault. Here's what he had to say:

1. Cylinder 3 had several misfires, only does it intermittently
2. He tried swapping spark plugs and coil packs to no avail
3. Compression tested OK
4. Fuel check OK
5. Conclusion - must be injector? Might be faulty/damaged/clogged

So, whilst similar events cannot always be the same conclusion, my misfire only happened when the car was cold and ended up being gunk and crap built up on the back of the valves. When cold the gunk was hard and stopped the valves closing properly but when warm became sticky and tacky and effectively sealed the valve.

My mechanics got the gunk out and the problem went away. Cost me about $600 to have it done. I was told that these engines can have that happen because the spray pattern doesn't always get to the back of the valves to keep the engine clean.



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[nat225]

i'd imagine if the car has hardly been driven on long distances, ie short trips only, the carbon build up could be the culprit..

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[warhead]

i'd imagine if the car has hardly been driven on long distances, ie short trips only, the carbon build up could be the culprit..

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That's my driving pattern; short trips to and from work during the week, proper trips (30+mins) on the weekend

I guess I can take it to another mechanic, one that isn't so gung ho with replacing things, and ask them to inspect my injectors and do a clean if necessary

[nat225]

That's my driving pattern; short trips to and from work during the week, proper trips (30+mins) on the weekend

I guess I can take it to another mechanic, one that isn't so gung ho with replacing things, and ask them to inspect my injectors and do a clean if necessary

http://www.vwwatercooled.com/forums/f112/golf-118-tsi-engine-failures-resolved-via-service-campaign-24s4-44540-43.html#post600205

same if not very similar engine to the GT.

[ope126]

Have you always used 98ron petrol in the car?
Have you ever used any fuel additives throughout your ownership period?

[brad]

So, whilst similar events cannot always be the same conclusion, my misfire only happened when the car was cold and ended up being gunk and crap built up on the back of the valves. When cold the gunk was hard and stopped the valves closing properly but when warm became sticky and tacky and effectively sealed the valve.

My mechanics got the gunk out and the problem went away. Cost me about $600 to have it done. I was told that these engines can have that happen because the spray pattern doesn't always get to the back of the valves to keep the engine clean.

It's a direct injection engine. The fuel won't reach the back of the valve - ever. The injector is downstream of the inlet.

You could put a borescope / endoscope into the inlet and have a look. borescopes are cheap these days - I use a $20 unit and the video is acceptable but they are hard to manipulate.

Whether it be an injector or carbon build-up, the inlet has to come off so I'd bank on an inlet valve clean & pull the injectors for a test & clean.

I'd also ask what the partno for the new injectors is and shop around.

[Mattlock]

It's a direct injection engine. The fuel won't reach the back of the valve - ever. The injector is downstream of the inlet.

Ah yeah! That's what they said. Thanks for the correction.

[grtuned]

Definitely need to find out if there is a super session of the injector part number I'm unaware of different spray patters being used
If you can't find any change then I doubt that's the reason. I'll personally be checking around for a bulletin or tpi that may shed some light on this spray pattern change and see what I find.

[brad]

I'm not sure what block the GT has but the CAVE partno appears to be 03C906036F.

They are ~$280 on ebay; $135 on Aliexpress; $50 at $29 OEM VW Injector Eos Golf Jetta Passat CC 1.4 TFSI 03C906036F

[Umai Naa!!]

God that's cheap.

You'll want to hope that the installer has the fitting tools with the teflon seal-honing sleeves.

FSI (TSI, etc) injectors will fail because of carbon build-up, but rarely would you replace a full set. You'd only do the one that's gone bang, and clean the rest, along with a thorough cleaning of the intake.