2008 gt d problems?????

[DkN]

Ok Dkn............taking all of that onboard.................how does one determine what is a 'independent VW specialist' as these Guys claim they are 'INDEPENDENT VW & AUDI SPECIALISTS' ??????????????

Ok Transporter..............a question please.............are you per chance a 'certified' tester/engineer/technician/workshop/etc, because if I send you the sensor and your 'gear' finds it in a OK condition, unless you can give me some sort of 'validation' to go back to the European Automotive workshop here in Geelong with, it's all a pointless exercise beyond you 'telling' me I've been ripped off???

Well for one mate, you can trust Transporter

If Transporter tells you the sensor is okay, just go back to European Automotive and tell them you got it independently tested and you're certain it is okay and if they want to test the sensor again then you're not paying for it if they get the same result

I am not familiar with reputable Melbourne independent specialists but I expect there will be a few, maybe do a search around here or post up a thread to ask if you can't find it.

[DOUBLECAB]

No, I'm not and don't have to be for my own needs. But, you should be able to find one in your state. How ever, I'm not sure how much would they charge you, probably a lot.

Hi Transporter......thanks for the quick reply re ...........'No, I'm not and don't have to be for my own needs.' and its not that I was questioning your 'expertise' but the ability/useability of your findings/conclusions in relation to me going back to the workshop with some facts/evidence showing they 'didn't' know their job/competence and were charging me for something I shouldn't have been charged for.

[DOUBLECAB]

Well for one mate, you can trust Transporter

If Transporter tells you the sensor is okay, just go back to European Automotive and tell them you got it independently tested and you're certain it is okay and if they want to test the sensor again then you're not paying for it if they get the same result

I am not familiar with reputable Melbourne independent specialists but I expect there will be a few, maybe do a search around here or post up a thread to ask if you can't find it.

Hi again Dkn...........wasn't questioning Transporter's ''expertise' (read my last post to him) but the 'useability' of his findings and in order for me to go back to European Automotive with a 'result' from an 'Independent tester', that independent tester would (correct me if I have this wrong) would need to have some sort of acreditation (ala like when in a court of law the judge calls for an 'expert opinion') otherwise I don't have a case!

As for finding a 'reputable' independent VW specialist.................that is always a prob I have found because no one has a 'perfect score' so to speak and btw Melbourne is 75ks from Geelong and is not really a practicable option if the car breaks down in Geelong.

[jets]

Do the dealerships.............'specialists'...........in dependents, VW, etc read these forums and take anything on board or don't really give a squat about what happens once the sale is executed??

Yes some of them do. I rang with a question to one of them & they repeated almost word for word what I had read on this forum.
The other thing I have learned is the dealers get very little help from the distributor & indeed from each other.[after all they are competing with each other] That is why the good ones who are interested in learning go to the overseas forums & contacts.
If you own an older car & go to a young dealer, they will only be given the latest info for the current vehicles. I have a lot more info in my stuff as would some on here than many workshops.
I was interstate on one occasion when I could smell gearbox oil when I pulled up & thought I had better check the level & top up if needed. I went to a young dealer & asked to buy some gearbox oil to which they replied we have never held any. I gave them the part no & they said we had better stock some.
The problem in Aust. & America as well, is our service industry is trailing way behind what is needed to service probably any new car out of Europe.

[DOUBLECAB]

Originally Posted by Transporter

No, I'm not and don't have to be for my own needs. But, you should be able to find one in your state. How ever, I'm not sure how much would they charge you, probably a lot.

Hi Transporter......thanks for the quick reply re ...........'No, I'm not and don't have to be for my own needs.' and its not that I was questioning your 'expertise' but the ability/useability of your findings/conclusions in relation to me going back to the workshop with some facts/evidence showing they 'didn't' know their job/competence and were charging me for something I shouldn't have been charged for.

Hi Transporter................did a Google and came up with this........Injectronics Automotive Electronics Parts Melbourne Australia - 1) Testing crank angle sensor using DC Digital Voltmeter (VL Commodore) and had a chat to them and they said they could only check out/test the sensor if it was in the car and they also needed its 'operating perameters' to determine its 'state'.

So I guess thats the end of it and the workshop (by default) needs to fear no comeback from me.

[Transporter]

Crank angle sensor (CKP) testers have been around for many years now.

...also the VW CKP sensor is no different to many common sensors, so it's possible to test it on the bench. When the sensor is tested as faulty, it's faulty, that's for sure, but if tested good, there is still a chance that it could be faulty or operating outside of the parameters. That's why they gave you that answer.

The common sense is telling me, that if the componnent was replaced and the same problem happened again, the componnent wasn't faulty and/or the problem was somwhere in the wiring (corrosion, broken wire).

[Jmac]

I got one come in today , BMN doing lots of stuff above mentioned, i drove it home and logged at the same time, clearly saw the crank sensor drop out, and when the engine is hot . With a suss sensor like that if i can access it i spray it with freeze spray to see if it gets better til hot again, then itll be the sensor. Intermittant can be hard, although sometimes scoping it even if its working can let you see what the pattern is like. Although the crank sensor is like mast common sensors it depends what they are reading and what pattern is produced. I agree if you are on the second crank sensor then its mostl likely not that, ive seen MANY air flow meters changed twice but this is common place with them but not crank sensors really. Something else might be dropping out that can influence the ECU and cause it to do weird things. This BMN has a relay clickimng exactly at the time the crank sensor drops out. Might not be the same as yours but ill post up my findings anyway

Cheers
Jmac

[Greg Roles]

All I can tell you is my battery is dying again, and this latest one is a very decent Oddessey one, yet they just don't seem to last in the TDI. If it fails to start first go, it throws the crank angle sensor error. I charge the battery, it's good for a few days at least, clear the crank error and all is fine and peachy. Having been through this before with the tiny Deka battery a few years back, I know a new battery will solve the issue for my car.

Not to say it isn't a dodgey sensor, just a seemingly good battery can easily throw this error, the current draw on a TDI starting in winter is just huge.

[DOUBLECAB]

All I can tell you is my battery is dying again, and this latest one is a very decent Oddessey one, yet they just don't seem to last in the TDI. If it fails to start first go, it throws the crank angle sensor error. I charge the battery, it's good for a few days at least, clear the crank error and all is fine and peachy. Having been through this before with the tiny Deka battery a few years back, I know a new battery will solve the issue for my car.

Not to say it isn't a dodgey sensor, just a seemingly good battery can easily throw this error, the current draw on a TDI starting in winter is just huge.

Well so far with the new German Varta battery in place it hasn't missed a beat.

Just put the multimeter on the old original Varta Battery and it is still giving a 'good' reading but that doesn't tell me crank amps under load so I don't have the total pic.

But with all the feedback/info from this forum and how the situation is panning out I now highly suspect it was a battery issue and not the sensor.

Time will tell and I will keep you Guys posted if there is a ongoing saga.

What does piss me off is that VW does not provide an 'accesable trouble shooting data base' to both workshops and owners based on VW's own knowledge/experience, workshop feedback and owners experience.

And as one member said he knows of a workshop that uses this forum for 'knowledge'........................kinda begs the question of what really the 'Independent workshops' out there know about our cars once beyond just doing the basics of an oil change service?????

[Greg Roles]

To be fair it's hard to know the in's and out's of each and every model, especially when a lot of it is learnt from trial and error. That said, it is true you expect a certain level of knowledge at a parts and service level, and I'm often amazed at the questions I get on the phone from some pretty experienced people across the country, and I'm just a dude who drills holes in his TDI!!

[Transporter]

And as one member said he knows of a workshop that uses this forum for 'knowledge'........................kinda begs the question of what really the 'Independent workshops' out there know about our cars once beyond just doing the basics of an oil change service?????

I can help you to get the answer to that;

I've invested heavily in the equipments, the software and the hardware, since I don't like much to be limited in what I can do on today's cars and I feel a little bit offended with your post.

Also, I know a few independent specialists, who greatly contribute to this forum with their knowledge, without them, there wouldn't be much (if any) of the technical knowledge in this forum about the late model cars.

Maybe the independent specialists should stop posting their knowledge in the forums and only share the knowledge between them.

[DOUBLECAB]

Quote:Greg Roles
To be fair it's hard to know the in's and out's of each and every model, especially when a lot of it is learnt from trial and error. That said, it is true you expect a certain level of knowledge at a parts and service level, and I'm often amazed at the questions I get on the phone from some pretty experienced people across the country, and I'm just a dude who drills holes in his TDI!!


Originally Posted by DOUBLECAB

And as one member said he knows of a workshop that uses this forum for 'knowledge'........................kinda begs the question of what really the 'Independent workshops' out there know about our cars once beyond just doing the basics of an oil change service?????

I can help you to get the answer to that;

I've invested heavily in the equipments, the software and the hardware, since I don't like much to be limited in what I can do on today's cars and I feel a little bit offended with your post.

Also, I know a few independent specialists, who greatly contribute to this forum with their knowledge, without them, there wouldn't be much (if any) of the technical knowledge in this forum about the late model cars.

Maybe the independent specialists should stop posting their knowledge in the forums and only share the knowledge between them.

Well Transporter.............firstly I didn't mean to offend you or anyone. I know zilch about you or what you do.

2ndly I am greatfull for the feedback I have received from the members on this forum both with this issue and others I have had in the past.

I like to think that I stay objective in that I ask the questions, (sometimes my questions have raised some folks schackles) and then I analyse the data/info and like to think I've rationalised a conclusion.

I have also quoted Greg Roles post, which I believe is also relevant to what you have raised here and the best I can sum it up with, is:

"We pay a premium for the vehicles we have purchased! We are charged a premium to have them serviced! And when I go to a Independent workshop that has on their shingle 'Independent VW & Audi Specialist' (that charges me $109+GST per hr), at what parameter/limit should I curtail my expectations of their competence??

As we all know...........there is no substitute for competence!"

[Jmac]

I can help you to get the answer to that;

I've invested heavily in the equipments, the software and the hardware, since I don't like much to be limited in what I can do on today's cars and I feel a little bit offended with your post.

Also, I know a few independent specialists, who greatly contribute to this forum with their knowledge, without them, there wouldn't be much (if any) of the technical knowledge in this forum about the late model cars.

Maybe the independent specialists should stop posting their knowledge in the forums and only share the knowledge between them.

Transporter im with you here mate, ive posted on here for years, ive been with this product longer than there was a bloody internet with over 25 yrs with the product, A LOT OF TIME INVESTED IN TOOLS AND TRAINING SOFTWARE AND HARDWARE , and countles post helping the people in need on here, and we dont have to post our knowledge on here and i agree maybe we should stop. Really thinking about out after reading this. Guys ive fixed cars for VW as they rang me in to do so and help other independents as much as i can as helping each other is the only way as knowledge doesnt get farmed out from the dealers and its obvious why. Its disheartening to read.
Good luck Googling, coz the the knowledge sharing on here could diminish when the other knowledgeable people read this, half wishing i hadnt, and i was going to post up my findings from this 2008 im working on that could have been interesting but think not
Jmac

[DkN]

Bit of misunderstanding here I think.

DOUBLECAB's problem is that he went to a supposed independent VW specialist who charged a high rate and seemed less than competent. Obviously that doesn't inspire confidence but one independent specialist certainly does not speak for all of them. Anyone can go and start a business and call themselves a specialist, it is not a guarantee - simple example if you see a $2 eBay watch that says "HIGH QUALITY" would you believe it?

At the end of the day the unfortunate circumstances are that you have to do your research. Find a REPUTABLE independent VW specialist. DOUBLECAB, obviously you did not have a good experience with the independent VW specialist that you dealt with but I think that's a far cry from drawing generalised conclusions - I mean, where do you think all the help you've received so far here on this forum came from? I'm not seeing an analysed or rationalised conclusion at all.

[DOUBLECAB]

Hey Guys................lets kindly just step back a sec and look at where this is going:

I came on with a prob and asked for input!

I stated I wasn't happy with what panned out with a local workshop that came with recommendations!

Folk on this forum gave me their input for which I was gratefull and thanked you Guys for it!

One member stated that there were 'good' independent workshops out there and it appears (kindly correct me if I got this wrong) when I asked the question as to how one should percieve/detect/discover what is a competent/capable workshop (considering I was told the one I used was competent and capable) that this thread started to go 'pear shaped' and some folk started to get their noses out of joint.

So Guys..............did I accuse anybody on this forum of 'malpractice?

I asked a ****load of questions!

I Didn't state that ALL workshops didn't know their 'trade'..............I questioned the competency of the one I used and I asked the question as to how one should choose a workshop that is competent and capable!

The honest truth is that not all workshops and tradies are competent even if the dealer or workshop owner has given them access to a mega mainframe!

Accordingly I fail to see why some folks on this forum have got their noses out of joint and are threatening to take their bats and go 'home'??

Have I told some lies?? Kindly show me where?

What crime have I committed?

Is questioning/asking questions a crime?