I'm changing the oil (new GTI)

[Transporter]

For those interested the price of the oil was $109 from VW.

Any good parts store would order the right oil for you. You don't have to buy from the dealer, you have to use approved oil (by VW). Mobil, Castrol. Of course if something goes wrong you have to prove that the vehicle was maintained as per manufacturer recommendation. I would still recommend that you buy a genuine oil and air filter.

[harbour2929]

The car hasn't got running in oil in it - running in oil would require changing within the first few thousand kilometres.

You can top-up with any oil that is VW 502 or 504 approved. It's in the manual.

Castrol Edge 0w-40 or 5w-30 or Mobil1 0w-40 are all OK.

FWIW I approached my selling dealer to do an oil change on our GTI at the 6 month mark, approx 5000 kms. The answer was that according to VW the original oil should not be replaced until 15000 kms / 12 months. After pressing the point that it sounds way too long to wait to do an oil change here is what I received back... Word for word.... "We will be happy to change the oil and filter in the GTI provided you sign a waiver stating that we have informed you of Volkswagens direction not to change the factory running in oil until one year/15000KM running. We will not be able to replace the special
factory oil as it is not available ex factory." Make of it what you will folks.....

[WEDEL.1]

I asked the service advisor & the chief mechanic at Solitaire about changing the oil on our TDI at 6 months, and was strongly & politly advised that the first service is due at 15kms or 12 months, whichever comes first.

It went against all I knew, but I complied. So far the TDI has covered 11700kms & first service due next month.

Maris

[Maverick]

FWIW I approached my selling dealer to do an oil change on our GTI at the 6 month mark, approx 5000 kms. The answer was that according to VW the original oil should not be replaced until 15000 kms / 12 months. After pressing the point that it sounds way too long to wait to do an oil change here is what I received back... Word for word.... "We will be happy to change the oil and filter in the GTI provided you sign a waiver stating that we have informed you of Volkswagens direction not to change the factory running in oil until one year/15000KM running. We will not be able to replace the special
factory oil as it is not available ex factory." Make of it what you will folks.....

Sounds like baloney, if I'm not mistaken the manual recommends more frequent changes under certain conditions and my dealer was more than happy to perform an oil change for around $150 using a 504.00/407.00 oil (and filter etc).

Contact VW and ask them to respond in writing and let them know the dealers name. Might be an idea to find another dealer as well.

[harbour2929]

Sounds like baloney, if I'm not mistaken the manual recommends more frequent changes under certain conditions and my dealer was more than happy to perform an oil change for around $150 using a 504.00/407.00 oil (and filter etc).

Contact VW and ask them to respond in writing and let them know the dealers name. Might be an idea to find another dealer as well.

Hi Maverick..... That response was actually in writing.... I tried contacting VWA (admittedly only by email) but I got absolutely nowhere... Here is their written response.. "We do not hold any technical information here at the Volkswagen Customer Care Centre. I am therefore unable to advise you further in regards to the oil change frequency for your vehicle. I would again ask you to refer your query to the service manager at your preferred dealership whom I am positive will be in the best position to explain the Volkswagen policy on oil changes to you." I don't think I could be any more confused if I tried!!

[WEDEL.1]

Two different Dealers telling you the same thing. They could be making money by bowing to the customers wishes, but are saying no.

Of course it could be a conspiracy by the Dealers to wear out our engines so we buy another new VW.

Lets face, most people (all most all) dispose of their new cars LONG before the motors are anywhere near worn.

Maris

[Maverick]

Hi Maverick..... That response was actually in writing.... I tried contacting VWA (admittedly only by email) but I got absolutely nowhere... Here is their written response.. "We do not hold any technical information here at the Volkswagen Customer Care Centre. I am therefore unable to advise you further in regards to the oil change frequency for your vehicle. I would again ask you to refer your query to the service manager at your preferred dealership whom I am positive will be in the best position to explain the Volkswagen policy on oil changes to you." I don't think I could be any more confused if I tried!!

The problem is that you get a third party company when you contact VWA, I can't remember their name (actually I think it's worldcare assist or something) but if you can get onto VWA themselves you should be able to get an answer. It's a pain in the rear them using that third party company as the service you get is rubbish compared to what VWA could offer directly, hopefully they will change this as sales grow in this country. You could ring the Sydney number for VWA as this will get them direct but ask them not to transfer you to their call centre and they should be able to find someone to assist.

[Maverick]

Two different Dealers telling you the same thing. They could be making money by bowing to the customers wishes, but are saying no.

Of course it could be a conspiracy by the Dealers to wear out our engines so we buy another new VW.

Lets face, most people (all most all) dispose of their new cars LONG before the motors are anywhere near worn.

Maris

The manual for the car says 7500kms if the car is driven hard and everything that I've heard on the subject has VW not using any special run in oil from the factory.

Plenty of the other dealers are performing intermediate oil changes as well.

Most likely it's someone who hasn't gotten the full story on oil changes and is now preaching it was gospel, VW recommend 15,000km+ oil changes for environmental reasons and no other as far as I'm aware.

It's the same problem with Australia Post deciding to ban the postage of any product containing a lithium battery (including watches) except via Road which limits them going to around 90-95% of the population all based on some changes to the recommendations for carriage via air. We're the only country to take such drastic action and it's all based on some idiots interpretation of the recommendations.

[gregozedobe]

Oils and oil change intervals can be a pretty controversial subject. Do your research (which you are) and do what you believe to be best.

I'm pretty sure some VW dealers are "suggesting" you do an initial oil (and filter) change at 7,500kms.

Of course if you want to really confuse them you could ask why we don't get long life (variable) servicing in Australia like they do in Europe (IIRC it is up to 30,000km/24 months depending on usage). I would want to be testing my oil before I would be confident about going that long (and especially so with a TDI).

[No457 Snowy]

"We will be happy to change the oil and filter in the GTI provided you sign a waiver stating that we have informed you of Volkswagens direction not to change the factory running in oil until one year/15000KM running. We will not be able to replace the special
factory oil as it is not available ex factory."

That's exactly what I was told when I asked my dealer about an early oil change back when my GTI was new (2004). I called VW Australia and they confirmed the dealer recommendation to leave the oil in was correct and advised from VW Germany, I can't understand it myself, but I can't imagine why they would invent such a story, after all the customer will be paying for material and labour.

They offered me an "optional" change at 7500km to appease me.

I think it also had some info to the same effect in the owners manual or glovebox leaflets as well.


Snowy

[Maverick]

Page 6 and 7 of the service schedule state that you can perform oil changes at 7,500km (for diesels using high sulphur content or vehicles operating under severe driving conditions).

Volkswagen's definition of Severe Operation Conditions

If the vehicle is used under severe operating conditions some jobs will have to be performed before the next service due or at shorter service intervals.

- Regular short trips or stop and go operation in urban traffic
- High percentage of cold starts
- Vehicle is used in areas with winter temperatures over a long period
- Regular long periods of idling (e.g. taxis)
- Vehicle is often driven under full load or towing a trailer
- Using diesel with elevated sulphur content
- Regular operation in areas with high levels of dust

[Paul_OH]

FWIW I approached my selling dealer to do an oil change on our GTI at the 6 month mark, approx 5000 kms. The answer was that according to VW the original oil should not be replaced until 15000 kms / 12 months. After pressing the point that it sounds way too long to wait to do an oil change here is what I received back... Word for word.... "We will be happy to change the oil and filter in the GTI provided you sign a waiver stating that we have informed you of Volkswagens direction not to change the factory running in oil until one year/15000KM running. We will not be able to replace the special
factory oil as it is not available ex factory." Make of it what you will folks.....

Wow, there are so many different stories out there that it seems any dealer is allowed to make up their own as they go along and VWA pretty much back them up or plead ignorance!
FWIW, I had my oil changed by the dealer at 7500km no questions asked - they did say it wasn't needed but were happy to do so.
At the time of purchase I also asked about the 1000km 'free' oil change that most other dealers do to remove any run-in contaminants etc and the answer I received was that "all VW engines are factory run with run-in oil which is then changed to regular spec oil for shipping to the dealers" - I now consider this absolute baloney
I have also spoken with another Golf owner who was told that the cars are shipped with mineral oil which is changed out at 15,000km for synthetic oil.
I purchased a 1lt top up bottle upon picking up the car - Castrol SLX Longlife III as I was told that is what they used but when I received my invoice from the 1st service it lists Mobil 10w40 as being used. A non VW approx oil for petrol engines!

There seems to be so much BS about, (some fabricated by owners), some from 3rd party workshops but most seems to come from ill informed or ignorant service departments.

If any mods are reading can we get 'Oil Changes' added as a discussion sticky? This seems to come up every week or 2 and each time there is a different experience or story from a service dept. Once all the stories are compiled we can ascertain some solid facts.

I (and many others) understand the importance of running the right oil and get sick of there being so much disinformation out there.

In summary, GT TSI and GTI owners can comfortably run any spec oil that meets the either 502.00 or 504.00 (most 504 oils are 504/507 - ie they currently meet both specs)

[Guest212]

I wish I'd been assed to do an analysis on the oil from my car when it was dropped at 15,000km.

Probably would have settled a few things!

[No457 Snowy]

There's been discussion about this subject, in one form or another for over 10 years, just a quick search revealed discussion about this very topic from 12 years ago:

The subject of engine oil and break-in are ALWAYS a hotly debated issue by enthusiasts. Heres what I have confirmed and/or know as a very experienced engine designer, engineer and successful racer:

1. VW-Audi uses a special "15W-40 factory fill oil" that you can NOT purchase. It is NOT the same as over-the-counter oils and has special break-in additives. I have confirmed this personally face-to-face with the lubricant engineer and lab technician at VW's Salzgitter, Germany engine assembly plant in both June/November of '96.

2. VW-Audi changed the FIRST OIL CHANGE drain interval from model year (MY) '95 to MY '96 from 5,000 miles to 7,500 miles because some customers were experiencing delayed piston ring seating due to DRAINING the "factory fill oil" BEFORE the 5,000 mile MANDATE of the Owner's Manual. The '96 Passat Owners manual I have, P.N. 962.551.3A0.21 7/95, on page 128 CLEARLY emphasizes the FIRST OIL CHANGE MUST BE PERFORMED AFTER 7,500 miles. The wording has been analysed to the nth degree in the VW newsgroups and mail list, and no matter how anyone argues, they are unable to escape the reality that VW does NOT want you to drain the "factory fill oil" before 7,500 miles.

3. For MY '97 VW of America has returned to the 5,000 mile FIRST OIL DRAIN because of outcry from ignorant U.S. consumers. Rather than spend a fortune in time and money to *educate* U.S. consumers, VWoA just gave up and returned to the 5,000 mile FIRST drain interval, while in Germany and the rest of the World they INCREASED the oil maintenance drain interval from 15,000 KM, (9,300 miles) to 20,000 KM, (12,400 miles). At some point it becomes a waste of time and effort to attempt to change the mind of technically illiterate consumers...

In my 30 years of designing, developing and racing engines, I have learned a lot. I've spent thousands of hours dyno and track testing engines, and still work directly with the German car manufacturers and professional race teams on engine design issues. With changes in technology and engineering that many enthusiasts are unaware of, "old wives tales" live on long after their useful life has expired. I just laugh when I hear people talk about all the "junk" inside a new engine... If you could see how VW robotically builds engines in Salzgitter, Germany you would truly be amazed! These engines are meticulously clean and inspected every step of the way.

FWIW, I subscribe to VW's mandated 7,500 miles FIRST and regular oil change intervals. Today's engines are built better, the oil is better, and there is simply no advantage in attemting to "second guess" the engineers who actually test this stuff all day long for a living! As I've stated before, they didn't determine 7,500 miles in the U.S. (and 9,300 or 12,400 miles in Germany and elsewhere) to be a safe drain interval, over a cup of coffee or while having lunch. These are engineers and thay have very demanding scientic TESTS they conduct in accordance with the Society of Automotive Engineers and the American Petroleum Institute, and DIN, etc. to determine these drain intervals. Engineers and scientist must deal with FACTS not opinions...

The bottom line is pretty obvious... Myself and several others in the VW newsgroups have submitted oil drain samples at 7,500 miles to labs for analysis. Result...no surprise! In ALL cases the oil was fully suitable for continued service and showed NO unusually high contaminants or metal particulate. I will be sending in my 15K oil drain sample in a few weeks and expect the same results as the first oil drain at 7,500 miles. The doomsdayers and well meaning but mis-informed enthusiasts can spiel all the hogwash they want, but independent scientific lab tests confirm that VW engineers are 100% correct in their mandated 7,500 mile FIRST and regular drain intervals. No ring seal issues on my engine. In 7,500 miles I add 1/2 pint oil at MOST, sometimes NONE at all!

What you do with your vehicle is up to you. As I have pointed out in the newsgroups, many times enthusiasts create their own problems because they do not have enough technical expertise to make good judgements. The 7,500 mile FIRST oil change is a real life example. Some well meaning, but uninformed VW enthusiasts who thought they were doing the "right thing" by draining their "factory fill oil" early, have actually ended up with delayed piston ring seating and high oil consumption. Just do what the factory Owner's and Maintenance manual states and you will have a happy and long lived VW !!! VW engineers have their butts on the line for 100,000 miles and they ain't no fools!

Hope I haven't bored you to tears, but for many this is a very emotional subject and they do NOT want to be confused by facts or scientific evidence contrary to their beliefs. As an engineer I prefer facts over opinions... Your Mileage May Vary...

I see no problems with you changing your oil at 5,000 miles. The rings should be fully seated by then. The 7,500 mile previous recommendation was to INSURE that people didn't drain the oil early, yet some still did, and BTW some who report that they did (on the newsgroup) also complained about high oil consumption as a result. They serve to substantiate that the VW engineers REALLY do know of what they speak, and that you should abide by their service mandates, not second guess them.

Regards,

On the 'Bahn,

Randy, a.k.a. BoltMeister

Snowy.

[blackmagic]

My selling dealer did set Service reminder to 7500 km.

Other Vw dealer (where i personally know some people) told me that first oil change is 15K,depending on oil used.
Factory oil (504.00 or 507.00) is good for 15K intevals but it can be changed
earlier and it is reccomended in severe conditions (BTW Aussie climate is treated as severe in eyes of Euro manufacturers) - dealers claim.

Oil should NOT be changed first time to early.......with less than 5K on the clock
because rings could not bed in properly and liners can get glazed (when using full synt oil).

7500 km oil change is good timing for first oil change and if you are planing to change it every 7.5K vw 502.00 spec is adequate.
If you are planing change every 15K then 504,505 or 507 spec is needed - long life as stated in owners manual.

My personally beeing "anal" with oil done myself first change at 7.5K and will continue same intervals.
I used and reccomend Motul Specific 504/507 5W-30...not cheap ($115) .....
but engine runs like a dream...............