Most powerfull MK5 GTI in Australia ?

[Big Yellow]

ok back on topic then....

Why is the intake temp so high? Was there any other dyno runs done with the correct intake temp?

What boost levels are you running?

Why is there a slight dip in power?

[Guy_H]

Back on topic,

The car runs a GT2871R which is quite capable of an easy 400whp.

What some people fail to recognise is the sum of the other parts involved:

The APR Front mount intercooler: it was 37 degrees ambient, and we only hit 58 degrees intake temps (where we have measured other turbo cars hit 90 + degrees C intake temps). It's pretty easy to work out the difference of 50 degrees intake temps.

Manifold flow, exhaust design, intake (in another thread APR was attacked for running a 4" intake as too big), fuel pump, injectors all contribute to the final numbers.

If you look at the design of APR's intake and exhaust downturn compared to some others, I think you will see a lot of differences to the design.

FYI, the stage 3 kit has made in excess of 400whp in several different countries (on race gas) so its not an "unusual" or "freak" result. VW of America's own GTI-R makes well in excess of 400whp and that is a demo / show car driven by journalists all around the US.

The same kit with a larger turbo is making over 600 whp (yes, thats right, another 50% again) - same manifold, same intake, same exhaust, and they are running almost 10 second 1/4 mile times.

http://www.veoh.com/videos/v16450657w2fqCyXS?rank=540&order=mc&range=m&numResults=20&category=category_autos_and_vehicles&offset=540

[Guy_H]

It actually isnt anymore , by law you need cams licence to purchase it

Incorrect - you can purchase it without a cam's licence and it is street legal.

Call Martini Racing 03 9763 0977

Or ELF fuels (03) 9686 8645

They sell it everyday.

[Guy_H]

ok back on topic then....

Why is the intake temp so high? Was there any other dyno runs done with the correct intake temp?

What boost levels are you running?

Why is there a slight dip in power?

No idea

23psi

wheelspin

[Guy_H]

Forgot to mention, depending on how you drive it and the temperature of the tyres, you can now wheelspin through all of third gear, and part way into 4th (on a closed road test track) - a few people had a chance to verify what it was like with race gas - it was considerably faster than the 98 ron program.

[Oneofthegreats]

Good stuff!

I'm not here to stir up anything but would like something cleared up please.

My only question is why are all these dyno sheet's popping up & are run in 3rd gear?

That will give an incorrect & increase in power reading due to the torque multiplication due to not running at 1:1.

Also, where was the inlet temp probe put?

That power figure seem's alittle high for a 2L 2871R on 23psi.

Don't get me wrong, I don't care what anyone say's 300kwatw's is an awesome effort & would be an absolute animal on the street.

Wonder how many of you out there have actually been in a 300kwatkw street car. Doesn't matter what fuel it's on.

It's going to be fast!

[velly_16v_cab]

i have done a bit of dyno work before when living in the uk. running in 3rd or 4th really doesnt make a difference to the out put (one or two bhp...but you would get that with back to back runs)
some people run in 3rd just to bring down the overall speed of the rollers.
the bottom line, dam that car would be quick!!!!

[Guy_H]

3rd gear runs are pretty normal - we have run them in 3rd & 4th before, but it makes no difference to the final numbers (That I have seen)- on the mkV it is well in excess of 200kmph - I think 3rd gear tops out ~ 180kmph?.

As far as I know, the intake probe was put in near the throttle body (after intercooler) - I was sitting in the car at the time so was not looking at where they placed it. It was bloody hot, I had a minor hangover & wanted to be in the car with aircon on.

They have been making in excess of 400whp on the 2871R (with race gas) even on the old 1.8T's - you can see over 64 whp in the software alone on this poor old MKIV GTI Golf:

http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2685793

[Oneofthegreats]

Thanks for clearing that up Velly & Guy.

I also missed the part about the race gas too & abviously more aggresive timing.

All clear now. So in street trim (ie PULP) is should be approx the 240wkw's then?

What fuel were you using by the way?

Awesome effort!

[GoLfMan]

i dont care what fuel you use

thats MASSIVE hp for a stock internal GTI

well done

[Guy_H]

No problem Golfworx. Yes ~ 240kw on 98 ron (we ran 239kw after we fixed up our PCV valve a while ago)

this time we were running ELF WRF which :

"ELF WRF
ELF WRF was formulated specifically for rally racing under FIA regulations.

ELF WRF complies with FIA WRC regulations (Appendix J).

ELF WRF is particularly suitable for naturally-aspirated and turbocharged 4 stroke engines.

ELF WRF was, for example, the official fuel in the 2002-2003 World Rally Championships (WRC) and the 2002 to 2004 French Rally Championships."

http://www.elfracing.com/lub/content/NT000FF7BE.pdf

Otherwise we use Martini GP700 (basically the exact same spec as above)

http://www.rallysportmag.com.au/home/documents/RS700Fuel.pdf

OR

Martini ST1400 (110 ron oxygenated) - you can blend this with 98 ron to give you a reliable 102 Oxygenated (104+ ron)

http://rallysportmag.com.au/home/documents/ST1400Fuel.pdf

The Elf is about $ 5.85 a litre, using the ST1400, you can get the cost down under $4-00 per litre.

If blending fuels, you need to datalog your timing pull to ensure it is within specs.

[DubSteve]

Nice work Guy thats impressive numbers **** I'd buy race gas if I knew the VR would do that lol.

Watch out Vtec drivers this car has bost Yooo!

[Guy_H]

Good fuel - its amazing what can be achieved with it.

One look at all the drag race classes (and I am no expert there), but the horsepower goes up & up with the different fuels.

In another application we have (much lower compression), the 104 ron fuels allow us for much timing advance, as well as up to 38lbs of boost to get a 1.8T to run close to 500hp - just like the WRC stuff of old!

[dangerous_daveo]

Even the 240kw on 98 and stock internals is gold! Never realised they had that much in them. How aggressive is that tune (running the 98 )?

I guess when you are at that point running the race fuel isnt such a bad option. 60kw is a lot more money if you spend it on parts, so why not put it in to fuel...

[Big Yellow]

Was only one dyno run done on your car that day? I thought they would have done a few runs.

Got any other runs from that day showing that power?



Wheelslip? Doesn’t the dyno have slip correction built in or something to monitor it?



That GTI with 600hp is actually not really a Stage 3 APR GTI. On vwvortex, Gregg at USP states that it runs a GT3076 with a T25 Flanged Manifold and Pauter Rods. Didn’t know those bits came with the APR Stage 3 kit.



Can you show a boost chart, interested to see how the GT2871 spools with race gas file.