I've got a Big Turbo and its VF RSS

[GTILIN]

Just wondering, since Im still technically an APR customer, as I paid for the APR tune before I went to GIAC, can you organise APR to create a custom tune for me with the parts I have?

GIAC and VF are happy with me adding water meth and will continue to support my hardware changes with new software changes.

Really like to see the different between two different tuning companies.

Also does the APR Stage 3 tune disable the secondary o2 sensor like the Stage 2? Just curious.

Just remembered too, I didn't get the chance to speak to Alex when he was down for that dyno day. Can you say Hi to him for me and like to catch up with him next time there is a group dyno day.

How's Nikola replacement downpipe going? The one I gave to him for an Xbox 360? (Best trade EVER!) He was a bit upset with me when he had to get the pipe out because of exhaust leaks issues with it.

Hong got his Peloquin LSD for AUD2000 landed from Eurospeed, do you do price matching Guy?

Anyway lets get back to the topic about the VF RSS kit, if anyone have questions about it, such as whats included, how it feels to drive.

Ask away and I'll answer everything to the best I can.

[DUB 20V]

do you get any vibration from the vf mounts? i ask cause a lot of guys with mk4's are going to the denisty line mounts from 034 motorsport, cause the vf ones are way to hard and the poly mounts dont last long, look good tho.

[Guy_H]

Peak is 24psi, nominated boost is 22psi, but thats just standard programming.

Sorry, APR don't do custom tunes for end customers.

APR never disabled any O2 sensors, but they have different software depending on Cat type & a testpipe program also if required (for track use) so I'm not sure where you get that information from, but it's false.

Nik's downpipe arrived today, so I'll drop him an email, thanks for caring good thing is he gets warranty even though he's not the original purchaser.

You may need glasses to see our dyno run, it was posted earlier in the thread.

Price match? sorry, not our Policy, and from the link you provided it says $2100 landed. We also warrant & support the diffs we sell, we like to offer a service.

No Idea, didn't go to GTI International - what was the comp? Power runs, track times? - let us know.

To the best of my knowledge, there has only ever been one big GTI shootout, judged by VW of America & Several magazines, and I am pretty sure APR won it hands down: dyno, track, drag etc.

Heres a couple of links for you.

https://www.makeyourfastfaster.com

http://europeancar.automotive.com/17238/0703-ec-volkswagen-gti-tuner-challenge/index.html

Thats the same engine / kit used in our GTI, Volkswagen of America's R-GTI - there is another thread up in the general section where Volkswagen have just flown in a New Tiguan & a Passat CC for APR to build & develop stage 3 kits for them too!

[GTILIN]

When I orginally had them installed there was more vibration which was noticeable, but after a few hundred km's the vibration has gone. It takes a while for them to settle in. Its also very important that the mechanic installs them to the correct torque setting.

Haven't got any experience with mkiv's. But I highly recommend it. Get all 3 VF mounts of course if your a serious driver, but the rear motor mount is enough for daily driving.

Relax Guy, just asking some questions.

But a lot of vwvortex posters and threads state that APR does disable the o2 sensor, and APR doesn't seem to debunk any of there statements. A lot of poster say if they don't have the APR tune, the car throws a cell with cat efficiency below threshold.

I guess using the word disabled is incorrect on my behalf. Maybe I should say, the secondary o2 sensor is given false reading by the tune. Is that a better way to put it?

Its a shame you can't do custom tunes like GIAC can.

Oh yeah by the way you know GIAC tunes are suitable for Australian VAG cars.

That shootout was so old and so long ago. All the other kits there have improved so much and most of the kits than were beta test kits. Thats not a real comparison to put in perspective now. The one published in the UK is a much better reflection of what the kits are doing now.

You don't know about the GTI International? its like the biggest event out there for GTI ethu's and fans. The year before they introduced the W12 GTI, I'm sure you will remember that car. We all have wet dreams about it now still.

[Guy_H]

I'm quite happy to answer your technical questions, and I'm very relaxed (afternoon coffee) Sorry, what do you mean by false readings?

If you run a high flow cat, you tell the ECU to look for the reading of a high flow cat, if you run a test pipe, you tell the ECU to look for the reading of a testpipe - you are not trying to send a "false signal" thats just basic ECU tuning from the 80's, but I'm not sure if you understand how it works. A sender "sends a signal, and the ECU works on that signal, so you program the ECU where you want it (thats how chip tuners do their stuff).

If you have a cat failure or reading outside the tuned parameter, all the safety mechanisms are there. A blocked cat will throw a CEL (check engine light) as the sensor will read a different flow to what the ECU is programmed to accept. Its pretty simple stuff in reality.

Does your car send false signals to the ECU saying the turbo is not larger? - please explain?

Custom stuff is not our line of business, good for you if you want custom, its a good thing you found someone to do it for you - how many tunes do they do for free for you, 1, 2 - a dozen? A custom tune could eat up hundreds of hours of calibration time (note: difference between calibration & programming - two different things). I know for a fact that APR spent over 50 man hours on the calibration alone on the AUS spec stage 3 software. Its not something you can do with Vag Com on a road, that was about 45 hours on the dyno, and about 5 hours on the road / track testing.

Never been to GTI international - have you? looks like a good event, maybe we should both go to the next one.

P.S.

Seeming you have the best modified GTI in the country, would you like Motor magazine to test it? (serious question)

We have been working with them for a number of months on a "tuner shootout" which they are trying to organise. They have a couple of new STi's, a couple of EVO X's, Mazda's worked MP3, a tricked up Renault of some form, our GTI - they are going to test them head to head against each other & a stock variant.

They started doing this tuner comparison in the October Motor magazine (about page 10.

Should be a good shootout - what do you think?

[GTILIN]

All my custom tunes are done as part of the service with getting a VF Engineering product and GIAC tune. Thats what I call Customer Service.

Doesn't having false readings sent to the ECU by the secondary o2 sensor make the ECU think everything is operating within the safety parametres.

Your question doesn't make my sense to me, seems very untechnical. Anyway do you have questions about my VF RSS kit, I'm happy to answer it for you.

[GTILIN]

Don't really read Motor, prefer the European stuff. But since you mention it, I'll definitely have a read of it.

[evorobin]

You don't know about the GTI International? its like the biggest event out there for GTI ethu's and fans. The year before they introduced the W12 GTI, I'm sure you will remember that car. We all have wet dreams about it now still.

That car was released at Worthesee 2007 not GTI International...

[GTILIN]

My mistake...

Hey Guy that question about my car sending a msg to the ECU because turbo isnt larger...didnt quite get it.

How big is the air-intake set up on yours?

[Guy_H]

4"

There is detail here:

http://www.goapr.com.au/products/stage3_trans20t.html

Click on the link to "components" & you will see pics of the parts off the car.

and a pic of the 4" maf & flow straightener:

Hey Guy that question about my car sending a msg to the ECU because turbo isn't larger...didnt quite get it.

First you implied APR "disabled" a signal, then you implied that APR sends a "false" signal, so I was asking you how you come to that conclusion.

Then the analogy is that you change components of a car, you reprogram the ECU to match, and you implied APR send a "false" signal. So I was asking is that how your car works, and explained the way that APR program it.

I'm sorry, but I don't know if I can make it any simpler than that.

[GTILIN]

Fair enough...

With the intake system being 4inch, how big is the intake side for the turbo, is it still 4inch wide? With that extra air volume does it the intake very loud and noisy?

With the VF RSS kit, its a 3 inch system. Its actually a very good set up as its not overly loud like the Evoms I had. It is actually quieter when driving around than the Evoms.

Do you cut like an acceleration cut because of the air intake being so big? Like a little jiot when driving normally around town?

[nayfen]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maverick
GTILIN, is the only reason you are posting here to have a go at APR and to promote Eurospeed?

are you setting your car up for track work?

is it still 4inch wide? With that extra air volume does it the intake very loud and noisy?

i would have thought that getting as much air in (as long as you can fuel it to the right ratio) =MOAR. Do you have an aftermarket exhaust is it quiet.

[GTILIN]

From what I know the turbo and the amount of air it can handle is dependent on the turbo itself. If it can't handle a certain volume of air, increasing the diametre won't increase efficiency. It doesn't quite work like that.

A larger intake system has more volume, requires more sucking. That's why I'm curious as to why the APR Stage 3 kit uses such a large intake system...(oh no I mentioned a company name ban me ban me...hahahah just having a poke at you Mave )

Anyway with some intake systems from past experiences, the maf sensor is very sensitive. For example with the Injen intake, at times when you driving kinda spirited, the maf would get overloaded by the amount of air coming in and cause the car to freeze for a spilt second like the way the car cuts power when traction control goes off. It all depends on how the intake is designed.

[Guy_H]

4" inlet - no hesitation, no hiccups - smooth as silk, my wife drives the kids to school / daycare in it.

Noisy intake? Its noisier than stock, thats for sure, but I have some customers who have different brands of intake on & some with the pod up near the battery really amplify the intake noise thats much louder than mine. I don't think 3" would flow what APR requires for the kit, don't forget, with an internals change, they are making in excess of 500hp with this size intake & turbo.

http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3719466

If you are going further with your mods, maybe the 3" won't be near big enough? - Who advises you on stuff like this, or do they just custom tune for every different combination possible? That must be a real pain for so many custom tunes. And imagine how many custom codes would have to be rewritten when VW do their recalls!


Also I have the APR exhaust RSC - fully compliant with the new ADR's that are coming in next year (Noise signature) - you can have a conversation at 200kmph - perfect.

There are a few in Melbourne now - the Volkspower Demo car also has one fitted if you wish to hear it.

The problems you speak about below, are 100% tuning related. Maf scaling & calibration are part of the "basics" - I suppose good calibrators make it work, bad ones wouldn't & you would have to reduce size and hence restrict power overall.

If you get a dyno of your car with 3" intake then try a 4" with custom tune, I'm sure you will see more power.

APR have been building these stage 3 kits since 1998, and the large MAF has been part of the program from the start, so they know how to get the power / smoothness / driveability & reliability out of the cars & products pretty well.

From what I know the turbo and the amount of air it can handle is dependent on the turbo itself. If it can't handle a certain volume of air, increasing the diametre won't increase efficiency. It doesn't quite work like that.

A larger intake system has more volume, requires more sucking. That's why I'm curious as to why the APR Stage 3 kit uses such a large intake system...(oh no I mentioned a company name ban me ban me...hahahah just having a poke at you Mave )

Anyway with some intake systems from past experiences, the maf sensor is very sensitive. For example with the Injen intake, at times when you driving kinda spirited, the maf would get overloaded by the amount of air coming in and cause the car to freeze for a spilt second like the way the car cuts power when traction control goes off. It all depends on how the intake is designed.

[TRGTI]

Who advises you on stuff like this, or do they just custom tune for every different combination possible? That must be a real pain for so many custom tunes. And imagine how many custom codes would have to be rewritten when VW do their recalls!

There are a few in Melbourne now - the Volkspower Demo car also has one fitted if you wish to hear it.

you should know who
he has 3" intake and yet makes 370 kw at all four wheels.
so you really don't need such a large intake.

yes i think Drmat has one of them new exhausts.