A long time coming, Rob's 4motion turbo build!

[Neroo]

so sad to hear about the turbo giving out , seems like you have it under controll but i bet it seriously is taking its toll on your wallet hehe

the figures you got down are amazing keep up the good work

[WhO]

Thanks for all the encouragement guys! Goal is once its all back together again to now make the exhaust myself to save some $$ and hopefully crack the 300kw mark on around 20psi

The wallet is looking pretty sick, so many extra expenses i'd never budgeted on have nuked the budget by a huge amount! Would've thought after having had several modified cars i would've learnt now to make a budget then double it! Oh well the theory i've gone on for this build has turned into - do it once do it right so i suppose its all been well invested.

I'm looking forward to getting it all back together again so i can give it a shakedown at Mallala our local circuit!

[Mr. JLT]

After you get it all back together I would do some data logging with vagcom so check to see where you at on A/F ratios, EGT(if you have 1 or a wideband) timing(this is the big one-water/meth makes a great difference) and injector duty cycle % at 10psi, 15psi 18psi and then 20. Should be pretty easy to get crack 300Kw.

What are you going to do for an exhaust.

Cheers J

[Coralon]

Given that you have done all the work yourself Who, the labour costs of installation are mitigated but compared to the turbo kits you can buy do you think there was much of a cost saving in buying all the components seperately ? And do you think the quality of the parts used in the build would be better if bought seperately vs whatever they chuck into a kit ?

[WhO]

After you get it all back together I would do some data logging with vagcom so check to see where you at on A/F ratios, EGT(if you have 1 or a wideband) timing(this is the big one-water/meth makes a great difference) and injector duty cycle % at 10psi, 15psi 18psi and then 20. Should be pretty easy to get crack 300Kw.

What are you going to do for an exhaust.

Cheers J

Once its back together it'll be back onto the dyno to again check A/F ratios but going by how they were before they should be sweet. I will at some point log timing though as i'm assuming the ECU will pull a lot at any sign of pinging. If there's any present i'll definitely look at water meth, but so far at 17psi i havent noticed any and my ear's pretty tuned at picking it up!

Currently the exhaust is a bit like spaghetti with it dropping to 2.5" post cat and having 2 mufflers, 2 resonators and lots of bends to keep it under the car and neat thus why its restricted quite a bit. To remedy this post cat i'm keeping it 3" and then going through to one straight through mid muffler just before the rear axle. This will then go to a varex rear muffler so i can choose if i want straight through or nice and quiet or stealthyness.

Not sure on timeframe as i'm still waiting on a mate to let me know when i can drop off the turbo to get looked at. Hopefully soon!

Cheers,
Rob

[schoona]

Congrats on the build mate, inspiring stuff for sure!
sad to hear about the snail, but you'll get that sorted anyway

All the best!

[RolfGolf]

One of the speediest build threads in history so far ... I look forward to seeing this around the place when you sort out the turbo.

Best Wishes.

[WhO]

Given that you have done all the work yourself Who, the labour costs of installation are mitigated but compared to the turbo kits you can buy do you think there was much of a cost saving in buying all the components seperately ? And do you think the quality of the parts used in the build would be better if bought seperately vs whatever they chuck into a kit ?

I think one of the big things for me by not getting a kit was that i could route everything exactly how i wanted it. I've tried to keep everything relatively stealthy and neat as possible. Not that i'm saying the kit's arent like this but this gave me the power of choice. Another big factor for doing things myself was that i'd heard mixed things about whether LHD kits (which are the majority out there) would fit without modification. Given that element of doubt i decided that i'd prefer just to do it myself and be sure it all fits how i wanted it. Another reason i went to do it all myself was that the challenge of making it from scratch and i guess the satisaction of having done it all myself.

As far as quality goes i'm sure the quality of most kits out there is fantastic. The only part i'm unsure about with some might be the turbochargers themselves. I'm a garrett fan and wouldn't really want to run anything else. I havent yet calculated the parts cost benifit / deficit however one thing with kits is there's always the little things they're missing thus personally i'd never assume that the price of any kit is the 100% drive away price. Also you should consider when boosting power dramatically to also improve supporting items such as Suspension, Brakes, Clutch, Cooling etc again which add cost

But in short to answer your question, yes i'd say that the cost has been slightly less and yes the parts quality higher in some areas. For example my dump pipe was less than $150 to make in raw materials and my intercooler piping cost less than $400 and i've got plenty raw materials left over to make more or alter things should i choose to. Labour costs however cant be ignored because they will be quite high if you aren't doing the work yourself especially if you end up taking the head and gearbox off as these are relatively time consumig.

All in all if you can, do as much installation work yourself if possible and leave any fabrication to somebody else. There's a huge amount of money to be saved and a lot of knowledge to be gained by pulling things apart and fitting things yourself and the satisaction of having done it almost makes up or the pain!

[Coralon]

Thanks for the info mate, gives me a lot to think about as I plan to do this later in the year. Hopefully you get yours all sorted out soon as I am very keen to hear how it performs as a daily driver as well as the odd stab here and there

[Back Door Shenanigans.]

How much would you think you need to save up to do this?

[Dyldo]

Have to be nearing $20K by shopping on ebay and getting good internet deals, plus doing most of the work yourself.

I did an itemised parts pricelist with net links and forex factored in, plus ECU tuning time, dyno time, labour costs and incidentals for a forged-internals 24v VR6 turbo build (and have swapped it around to a few of the 4mower guys too) and even then I was going over $20large.

[Back Door Shenanigans.]

Have to be nearing $20K by shopping on ebay and getting good internet deals, plus doing most of the work yourself.

I did an itemised parts pricelist with net links and forex factored in, plus ECU tuning time, dyno time, labour costs and incidentals for a forged-internals 24v VR6 turbo build (and have swapped it around to a few of the 4mower guys too) and even then I was going over $20large.

What about without the forged internals?

[Coralon]

After a bit of research you can get bits from various places with most needing to be imported. The turbo, intercooler, manifold, wastegate and fuelling kit would set you back about 4k landed but you will need to send an ECU overseas as well so a little extra shipping there. Then you need to add on ancileries, exhaust and suspension + stopping bits. I would say 7k for a non forged build with you either doing a bit yourself or helping a very friendly mechanic with the work.

Given the estimate I would probably add another 3k or so just for extra bits that might pop up. If you want to run insane boost for extended periods then you have to go with at least forged rods and pistons and possibly even blueprint the crank so you will very quickly see the budget blow out to 20k but a fairly tame 16psi build for 10k that would blow most anything to the weeds is not to bad.

My estimate is very conservative so if others have more input or even build sheets then feel free to correct me

[WhO]

I've recently been working on a tally of the costs related to my build and i'll generalise it with a ball park figure shortly.

Honestly though the general rule of thumb seems to work in that whatever you think you could do it for at the cheapest, multiply it by 1.5 or 2 to get a safe figure. Dont get me wrong, it can be done cheaply however the old rule of 3's does come to play ie you can only choose 2 o these three options: Cheap - Reliable - Fast. Now obviously fast is relative but the rule still kinda applies.

Without looking into it too much i reckon it could be done for close to 7k but you'd definitely need a very very friendly mechanic or good skills at sourcing items.

A quick rundown of some generic costs i can see for a basic build, note i've speced a garret ball bearing turbo, as this is the heart of the machine i would hesitate to skimp here

Turbo: GT30xxx $1500-1800
Manifold: $300 (250+$50 to get 02 sensor bungs welded in)
C2 Motorports stage 1 Fueling kit:$1500
Custom Dump Pipe: $400
3" Exhaust: $800-1000
Intercooler: $300
Intercooler piping: $400-800 ($400 for materials only including silicones and clamps or $800 for piping made to fit by exhaust shop)
Manifold Gasket:$20
38mm Wastegate: $80-350 (cheap end is tial copies which actually work really well, expensive end is genuine tial or equiv)
Boost Controller:$300+ (go an electronic one, dont bother with bleed valves)
Fuel Pump: $140
Clutch and Flywheel: $800-1300
Assorted Vac and fuel lines: $50
Oil feed + drain lines: $130
Gearbox Fluid: $75
Motor oil: $80
Dyno Time to check tune: $150-400

Now just that totals around $8000 taking some low - mid range figures. Note that DOES NOT inclue any labour or installation costs nor any upgrading of suspension, brakes or oil cooling. I have no idea how long installation would take but would guess 20+ hours, and at the going rate of $100 per hour thats another 2k right there. Also keep in mind that this setup does not include opening the motor to decompress it or install stronger headwear / rodwear or a better intake manifold. Thus you really would be rolling the dice at 15psi (mosty because the plastic maniold has been known to blow anywhere from 12psi upwards and if it goes be aware that there are potential ramifications of plastic being ingested into the motor... not good.

So realisticaly to create a reliable 10-12psi boosted car i'd say your looking at at least 8-10k and the thing is if you go that far... why not spend another 3 or 4k and replace the intake, decompress the motor, put in ARP hardware and then have a car that you can boost reliably to 20+ psi. Problem is its so easy to get carried away!!!

Haha i'll stop now since as usual i've written an essay... sorry for yabbering on guys!

[Coralon]

Yabber on Who, its your build thread that has us all salivating mate