Faulty DMF & transmission, yet VGA won't replace clutch

[GolfWagon]

I've got a frustrating warranty issue with a 2010 Golf wagon 77 tdi with a manual transmission.

I noticed some strange noises coming from the transmission when the car was idling in neutral. On having the regular service performed our VW specialist mechanics agreed that is was something for VW to look at under warranty.

Took it to the local dealer, the had a look and determined that the DMF was shot & replaced it under warranty (it was barely hanging together apparently 90% separated). They then noticed there was still noises coming from the transmission, and after a lot of back and forwards between dealer and VW head office, the manual transmission is also being replaced under warranty (they're having to ship one in, none in the country).

The issue, apart from the fact that they've had my car off the road for 8 weeks so far, is that they refuse to replace the clutch under warranty as well.

I am arguing against this.

The car has done 48,000km of relatively easy driving. And they say that the clutch is 50% worn and withing the normal range.

To me (and my mechanic) given there are mechanical issues with the DMF & transmission, I see that it is only right that the clutch be replaced due to adverse wear it would have suffered given the issues either side of it. And this is confirmed by the fact that it is so worn given easy driving for only 48,000kms.

I've just received a call from the helpful guys at the local dealership to say that the car will be ready in the next day or so.

Any thoughts on how I should progress the claim for the clutch best?

[Lucas_R]

I agree that the clutch should be changed along with everything else....BUT....just like brake pads and tyres etc the clutch is classed as a consumable item and generally warranty isn't given on these unless they are clearly faulty. Perhaps see if you can push for a 50/50 split on the cost of a new clutch kit with VW. At least that way your entire transmission will be brand spankers.

[tigger73]

It depends how long you intend to keep the vehicle. If you're looking to trade in the next year or two I wouldn't lose too much sleep on it. Even if it has seen more wear than usual.

However if you're keeping it longer I'd definitely look at getting it done and as Lucas_R says just pay for the "reasonable" wear. After all you have done 48,000km.

Having said that if my car was off the road for 8 weeks I'd be keen to get a sweetener to keep me happy. Not sure what sort of loan vehicle has been provided in the meantime.

[Transporter]

Any thoughts on how I should progress the claim for the clutch best?

The VW is right, if the part is not faulty, why should they replace it. If it was me I'd pay for the clutch and be done with it.

[GolfWagon]

The VW is right, if the part is not faulty, why should they replace it. If it was me I'd pay for the clutch and be done with it.

My thinking is that the damaged DMF will have adversely impacted on the clutch (i.e. worn it prematurely), so they should replace it given the impact of their faulty parts.

[gldgti]

I think its a bit sad they are quibbling over it since compared with the rest of the replacements, its so cheap, but I agree with transporter - it is a wear item and its not worn out - you could argue until the cows come home about the rate of wear but I don't like your chances -see if they'll go 50/50 like Lucas said and if not I would just pay for a new clutch.

Its nothing in the scheme of things really.

[Umai Naa!!]

Tread carefully when trying to milk a warranty claim. As others have said, the clutch is a consumable, and if they're happy to come to an agreement with you over it, take what they're prepared to offer.

There should be specs in the workshop manual on the amount of friction material on the clutch plate.

[GolfWagon]

Thanks for the replies, I am surprised by the thoughts that I am asking for too much.

I'm not a car techo, but I understand the basic physics of it all and have replaced many car parts myself over the years on older simpler technology cars (including a clutch). I understand that a clutch is a wear part - that's it's job.

I also believe that a car maker should take responsibility for the full consequences of their defective parts. And my understanding of the physical interface between the DMF and the clutch is that it is an intimate and very physical one. So when one side of that equation is seriously defective (separating DMF) then detrimental impacts on the other well performing piece should be addressed too.

5 times we have had to take the car back to VW since purchase for repairs, the last 2 times for this issue (they've also replaced a leaking clutch master cylinder which they thought was the only issue at first with the transmission noises, until I had to take it back and let them know nothing had changed for the better).

They have not even engaged in any discussion about how to resolve the issue (i.e. they have offered nothing). To be honest they haven't returned any calls (over 8 weeks of being in for service) or responded to any emails until I raised a formal complaint - I don't blame the dealership, obviously this happened at a time they have been inundated. But overall has been far from a good look by VGA.

I love driving this car, but don't love owning it. We are a one car family, and wanted something reliable to last for 10 years. Our previous Mazda Metro 121 was a far better servant for the previous 10 years.

[gldgti]

Thanks for the replies, I am surprised by the thoughts that I am asking for too much.

I'm not a car techo, but I understand the basic physics of it all and have replaced many car parts myself over the years on older simpler technology cars (including a clutch). I understand that a clutch is a wear part - that's it's job.

I also believe that a car maker should take responsibility for the full consequences of their defective parts. And my understanding of the physical interface between the DMF and the clutch is that it is an intimate and very physical one. So when one side of that equation is seriously defective (separating DMF) then detrimental impacts on the other well performing piece should be addressed too.

5 times we have had to take the car back to VW since purchase for repairs, the last 2 times for this issue (they've also replaced a leaking clutch master cylinder which they thought was the only issue at first with the transmission noises, until I had to take it back and let them know nothing had changed for the better).

They have not even engaged in any discussion about how to resolve the issue (i.e. they have offered nothing). To be honest they haven't returned any calls (over 8 weeks of being in for service) or responded to any emails until I raised a formal complaint - I don't blame the dealership, obviously this happened at a time they have been inundated. But overall has been far from a good look by VGA.

I love driving this car, but don't love owning it. We are a one car family, and wanted something reliable to last for 10 years. Our previous Mazda Metro 121 was a far better servant for the previous 10 years.

Unfortunately you are one of many who have got less than they expected out of ownership of a new VW - you only have to look at the common posts in the forums to see that trend.

In the end there's nothing any of us can say that will get VGA to pay for your clutch though - good luck.

IMO, regardless of the car brand, you need to be mindful and savvy if you want the kind of reliability these days that the simpler cars of the 90's gave us. I took quite a while deciding what car to buy as the 'keeper' - and I settled on my octavia and couldnt be happier. Superficially almost the same car as your golf wagon, but different in all the ways that it counts (im my mind) - a simpler injection system that I knew to have a sterling record, an engine bottom end that was straight out of the early 90's, a gearbox that is similarly proven, unchanged in 15 odd years of mass production, and the vehicle itself produced in the czech factory with smaller produciton volumes and closer attention to detail in parts selection, along with a track record in european countries for reliability that is almost unsurpassed.

But why would anyone normally look for those differences when buying? I certainly wouldnt expect people other than myself to choose between two cars like that based on those things. But I did, mainly because of the 'theme' that has been building around late model VW's in recent history.

Indeed, in 2007, (even today) who in Australia has ever heard of a skoda..... but VW, well of course!

Not that I would particularly buy a brand new Skoda over a brand new VW.... but 5 years ago, yes.

[jets]

The car has done 48,000km of relatively easy driving. And they say that the clutch is 50% worn and withing the normal range

My view is if your clutch is 50% worn at that mileage it's either hard driving conditions[lots of stop start city driving with quick take offs] or your driving style.If the DMF was faulty I can't see how it would wear the clutch plate prematurely. I know in some people's hands the DMF can give out but I have two VWs with the DMF & higher mileage than yours & never had a problem.
I agree with Transporter, pay for the clutch yourself & be done with it.
Personally, I think your expectations are too high thinking VW should pay for a wearing item & not necessary a faulty item.

[kaanage]

If the DMF was faulty I can't see how it would wear the clutch plate prematurely.
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Personally, I think your expectations are too high thinking VW should pay for a wearing item & not necessary a faulty item.

I totally agree. The clutch wears when it is not fully engaged and a worn DMF will have no impact on this as the DMF will just move to the loaded position while engagement is increased, with a worn DMF moving more quickly.

VW have made big mistakes with dealing with some design/production issues but this is not one of them. It seems the dealer has been rather poor at finding the cause of your problem, plus VW don't stock a lot of major components locally, which has increased your level of frustration.

Do you have to ride the clutch a lot to get the car moving, especially on hill starts? That is a pretty small engine for a Golf Wagon (plus it doesn't seem to have much bottom end torque for a TDi)