Adding 2 stroke oil to fuel - Interesting reading!!

[benno]

Very interesting find.
It got me thinking about it and at the same time I put myself a question.
There are chemists and scientists that design the diesel fuel additives; why they don't use 2stroke oil in their products?

Good point, and something I was thinking myself, but how do you know they don't? One poster in that thread I linked to claimed that a Redex diesel additive was mostly two stroke oil. It's certainly not inconceivable that they'd package up some two stroke oil with a bit of water dispersant in it and sell it at a great profit

[brad]

2-stroke is a highly polluting way of feeding an internal combustion engine, that is why Eastern Germany has got rid of them all, and it is why TATA are trying to manufacture a cheap car in India.

But the old Eastern Block Trabants & the dungers in India are all running old fasioned, low tech 2-strokes on a 20:1 mixture. Modern direct injection 2-stroke technology as used in outboard engines, snowmobiles & motorscooters is far more benign.

Also Ms YF is saying 200:1 in diesel which is 275ml of 2 stroke to a full 55L Golf fuel tank. Given that most people don't run their tank to completly empty, I'd think a 200ml shot at every fill would be about right.

You are burning a heavier substance in terms of the refraction of crude oil, so it tends to fall quickly as it cools down and so it sticks around in the streets and in the air. Research suggests that 2-stroke fuel is 40 yes 40 times more polluting than 4-stroke.

But how does 2-stroke compare to diesel?
Also, does it depend on the oil:fuel ratio? I run my brushcutter at 50:1 because I use Stihl 2 stroke oil.

I know it isn't a diesel, but I often used to add a litre of ATF to my petrol to act as a detergent agent, upper cylinder lubricant & decarboniser. Redex for petrol was the same base - ATF.

[brad]

YF's observations about the cleanliness of turbos, etc, makes me idly ponder if adding maybe a 1:500 or 1:1000 mix into the GTI's fuel would keep the air inlets cleaner - they do gather plenty of oil and clog the insides of head ports much faster than a port injected engine.

Sorry for slightly OT.

How would a cleaner in the fuel keep the air inlets (I assume you mean the inlet manifold) clean if the fuel is direct-injected into the combustion chamber?


I'm sure I've misunderstood or am missing something.

[gerhard]

Sorry for slightly OT.

How would a cleaner in the fuel keep the air inlets (I assume you mean the inlet manifold) clean if the fuel is direct-injected into the combustion chamber?


I'm sure I've misunderstood or am missing something.

Nah, I was just idly pondering and clearly it is a nonsense thought

It's oil blowby that pollutes the inlets, not fuel blowby

Many of the naysayers above might like to think about why MB would use this technique and find it rewarding, when they say things like "I'm not an engineer, but......" and refute the findings of engineers.

[sparkie]

I'm a naysayer

Het Gerhard, I'm a naysayer, because sooo much of what goes on in the world, and even more in the car industry is bxxxxxit. MB did this because they could guarantee the quality of the diesel they were using on a reliability run, and as the original bloggers wrote how embarrassing would it have been if the cars had failed due to poor diesel bought locally. I donlt have to be an engineer to know that the diesel I buy has often been mixed with additives by unscrupulous station owners, nor that the underground fuel tanks are not completely water-free (condensation on the inside of the tanks at night), finally many of these engineers are researching engines in a lab with highly controlled environments - which do not translate to real-world situations - so I say roll on the naysayers, after all, the world is flat and te antarctic ice pack has increased by 100,000 square kilometres in the last ten years - but don't quote me I'm no climatologist!

[Greg Roles]

OK guys, have done a stack of research, and it seems 2 stroke is great in helping older diesels cope with the lower sulphur diesel of today. If you run some bio, there's no benefit. Seems to be too many people warning against using it in cars designed for ULSD, and those reporting more smoke, hence DPF cars are out of the question in my mind.

If it gave a measurable power hike, I'd risk it, but it doesn't, so I won't.

I did learn a lot about cetane in the process, and the waste of time cetane improvers are, especially in summer, when they just help diesels preignite even more, and LOWER power outputs. You want higher cetane in winter, lower in summer. Interesting!

Also got to see a lot of yankie dyno charts with various diesel additives, and most of them also lowered power outputs, when a dyno was done in a car with dual fuel tanks, and switched across for consecutive runs, one with the additive.

I won't be buying any for anything other than the odd flush.

[gerhard]

But that's my point. If MB uses the technique to turn crap fuel into good fuel (ie, hugely beneficial), how can the technique be harmful?

And if it's demonstrably beneficial, how does that make it harmful?

[brad]

Many of the naysayers above might like to think about why MB would use this technique and find it rewarding, when they say things like "I'm not an engineer, but......" and refute the findings of engineers.

That's where I don't quite believe what Ms Y? was saying. All her references were heresay or commercial in confidence or unfinished university studies. It started to wear thing after a while.

[brad]

But that's my point. If MB uses the technique to turn crap fuel into good fuel (ie, hugely beneficial), how can the technique be harmful?

I don't believe they did.

They organised there own fuel tankers for the relibility run & supposedly/secretly added 2 stroke.

[benno]

OK guys, have done a stack of research, and it seems 2 stroke is great in helping older diesels cope with the lower sulphur diesel of today. If you run some bio, there's no benefit. Seems to be too many people warning against using it in cars designed for ULSD, and those reporting more smoke, hence DPF cars are out of the question in my mind.

If it gave a measurable power hike, I'd risk it, but it doesn't, so I won't.

I did learn a lot about cetane in the process, and the waste of time cetane improvers are, especially in summer, when they just help diesels preignite even more, and LOWER power outputs. You want higher cetane in winter, lower in summer. Interesting!

Also got to see a lot of yankie dyno charts with various diesel additives, and most of them also lowered power outputs, when a dyno was done in a car with dual fuel tanks, and switched across for consecutive runs, one with the additive.

I won't be buying any for anything other than the odd flush.

What do you reckon about YFs claims that it actually lowers the amount of soot in the exhaust? As far as I can see, she's the only one advocating it's use in DPF cars for this reason. And she claims to have had her car measured and it produced less soot than expected...

I saw some of that stuff about cetane too, very interesting. Particularly as people seem to regards it like octane and that bigger is better.

[gldgti]

sp preeny, how'd the caddy go?

[Preen59]

sp preeny, how'd the caddy go?

Poked a rod out on the Hume....


NAAAHHHH haha.


Went well. I'd say the 3-5% increase in fuel economy is plausible. I got 5.2 on the way down and 5.3 coming home. Last time i got around 5.4-5.5. This was sitting on 110/100 depending on the speed limit for most of the way, too. I Didn't speed, but i didn't muck around, either.

It's quieter. Slightly smoother. Idles quieter i think. Seems to have a little bit more go in the mid/top end, nothing earth shattering though. Don't know about the soot thing because i can't really see it.

Definitely no worse. The Yamalube worked quite well. I used a bit too much, but i can't see the harm in using more than required..

[gldgti]

well there ya go... cant hurt

[GoLfMan]

might give it a crack then

[Preen59]

well there ya go... cant hurt

Yeah. Considering that diesels effectively burn high grade heating oil, I figured it couldn't do and serious damage. Especially having experience with the properties of 2 stroke oils. I say give it a go for sure.