Adding 2 stroke oil to fuel - Interesting reading!!

[benno]

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[gldgti]

i'm going to try it.... i wonder if it makes much difference if you add it to biodiesel

[gregozedobe]

http://www.freel2.com/forum/topic878.html?highlight=oil

What do you reckon peeps?

I'd be be a bit cautious if your TDI has a DPF - they are very expensive to replace. VW go to all the trouble of only approving special low-SAPS engine oil in case burnt engine oils contaminate the DPF.

[gerhard]

I read as far as page 6, and there was not one single flame post - that's amazing when it can be regrded as a "contentious" issue.

There is no doubting the lubricity and combustibility of 2 stroke oil - the Rotaxs on our karts pulled 14,000rpm all year on a 50:1 mixture, and the wear was negligible as was the soot inside the combustion chamber.

I have no doubts that it can replace the lubricity of sulphur in diesel fuel.

YF's observations about the cleanliness of turbos, etc, makes me idly ponder if adding maybe a 1:500 or 1:1000 mix into the GTI's fuel would keep the air inlets cleaner - they do gather plenty of oil and clog the insides of head ports much faster than a port injected engine.

I don't think I'll try it, since it's hard to measure any effectiveness in the GTI engine, but if I had a diesel I would definitely check it out.

[gerhard]

I'd be be a bit cautious if your TDI has a DPF - they are very expensive to replace. VW go to all the trouble of only approving special low-SAPS engine oil in case burnt engine oils contaminate the DPF.

There was plenty of commentary about that issue in the small amount I read. YF is specific about the ash content of the 2-T oil recommended, and specifically says not to use fully synthetic in a DPF vehicle because it does what you are fearing.

[benno]

Yeah I'm a bit leery of doing anything to upset the DPF. Although the woman (!!!!) who started the thread and recommends adding the oil, is firmly of the opinion that it won't harm the DPF and is in fact protective of it - a cleaner burn leading to less soot in the exhaust.

[Greg Roles]

F'ing great find, I'm excited about the idea. Bit of research needed, as indeed oil ash clogs that damn DPF, but as soon as I can find a low ash 2 stroke mix, it's in.

[Preen59]

I'm going to Melbourne tomorrow. Got litres and litres of Castrol R30 at the workshop. I'll throw 300mls in before i leave and see how it goes. I'll also take the bottle with me and fill up on the way home.

I usually get mid 5's there and back. It'll be interesting to see what difference it makes.

Report on Monday night.



Edit: I'm going to use Yamalube as we've got a stack that we'll never use. We tried in in the Karts and there was a definite performance gain in it initially, but the longer you used it, the slower the engine became. This turned out to be because it was actually de-carboning the engine. Removing it from the piston crown and down the sides. This caused more heat soak in the engine and gave less piston seal, which equated to a hotter, slower engine. (Talking air cooleds here...)


For this application, it should be perfect. The idea is to lubricate and clean, which this stuff does an amazing job of. Anyways, like i said.. I'll get back to you.

[Greg Roles]

Lucky non DPF types...

[GoLfMan]

Im keen to try this!
will get some into the next fill up (or maybe even tonight!!!!)
should I get just the garden variety stuff thats down at the petrol station?

[benno]

F'ing great find, I'm excited about the idea. Bit of research needed, as indeed oil ash clogs that damn DPF, but as soon as I can find a low ash 2 stroke mix, it's in.

Keep us posted with what you find mate.

YF in that forum made a post with some specs of oil that are suited. I'm going to poke around at the servo tomorrow when I fill up and see what they've got.
(if I'm allowed out that is - stuck in bloody quarantine for the past two days as I've got 'flu-like symptoms' and had contact with someone who tested positive for H1N1...)

[benno]

Im keen to try this!
will get some into the next fill up (or maybe even tonight!!!!)
should I get just the garden variety stuff thats down at the petrol station?

Mate read the thread and see what YF recommends, she quotes a bunch of oil specs somewhere....

[sparkie]

Talking out of her arse

Dear Peeps, there a lot of mis-information on the internet, I'm sure you agree, and here is some more. I am not a petro-chemical engineer, but I do know a lot about biodiesel. YF states that the reason to add 2-stroke to modern diesel is to compensate for the lack of sulphur, which is a lubricant, in the fuel , thus adding 2-stroke compensates for the REDUCED lubrosity (sp?) of modern diesel due to there being more biodiesel in the fuel. This is totally incorrect, biodiesel has MUCH better lubricating properties than petro-diesel, there are plenty of references to this online. The reason pump manufacturers are coating linings with teflon is because biodiesel is a great solvent and can attack certain plastics and metals, again there are lists of what plastics are unstable with BD. 2-stroke is a highly polluting way of feeding an internal combustion engine, that is why Eastern Germany has got rid of them all, and it is why TATA are trying to manufacture a cheap car in India. You are burning a heavier substance in terms of the refraction of crude oil, so it tends to fall quickly as it cools down and so it sticks around in the streets and in the air. Research suggests that 2-stroke fuel is 40 yes 40 times more polluting than 4-stroke. In many parts of Scandinavia foresters are not allowed to use certain oils in their 2-stroke chainsaws because of the pollution, the oils they use are not available over here as far as I know. I would also reckon 2-stroke would cause havoc with sensors and DPFs. Ironically if you want to overcome the comparative 'dryness' of modern diesel, add bio-diesel (which is often packaged as an injector cleaner anyway), but be aware of its chemical (not lubricating) properties.

[Transporter]

Very interesting find.
It got me thinking about it and at the same time I put myself a question.
There are chemists and scientists that design the diesel fuel additives; why they don't use 2stroke oil in their products?

Because, it can't replace a good diesel fuel additive that also disperses water, prevents bacteria growth. The diesel fuel additive is proper lubricant for complete diesel fuel system and it is designed to burn in combustion with diesel fuel.
The 2stroke oil is designed to lubricate 2stroke petrol engine and burn in combustion with petrol.

So, I’m not sure about 2stroke oil in diesel fuel.
You most likely won’t do any damage by just trying it once, but I'm not sure about a long-term impact on the fuel system components if you use it all the time. Especially if you have the DPF.

The risk is to grate: very little to gain and too much to lose.

[benno]

Dear Peeps, there a lot of mis-information on the internet, I'm sure you agree, and here is some more. I am not a petro-chemical engineer, but I do know a lot about biodiesel. YF states that the reason to add 2-stroke to modern diesel is to compensate for the lack of sulphur, which is a lubricant, in the fuel , thus adding 2-stroke compensates for the REDUCED lubrosity (sp?) of modern diesel due to there being more biodiesel in the fuel. This is totally incorrect, biodiesel has MUCH better lubricating properties than petro-diesel, there are plenty of references to this online. The reason pump manufacturers are coating linings with teflon is because biodiesel is a great solvent and can attack certain plastics and metals, again there are lists of what plastics are unstable with BD. 2-stroke is a highly polluting way of feeding an internal combustion engine, that is why Eastern Germany has got rid of them all, and it is why TATA are trying to manufacture a cheap car in India. You are burning a heavier substance in terms of the refraction of crude oil, so it tends to fall quickly as it cools down and so it sticks around in the streets and in the air. Research suggests that 2-stroke fuel is 40 yes 40 times more polluting than 4-stroke. In many parts of Scandinavia foresters are not allowed to use certain oils in their 2-stroke chainsaws because of the pollution, the oils they use are not available over here as far as I know. I would also reckon 2-stroke would cause havoc with sensors and DPFs. Ironically if you want to overcome the comparative 'dryness' of modern diesel, add bio-diesel (which is often packaged as an injector cleaner anyway), but be aware of its chemical (not lubricating) properties.

Sulphur content has nothing to do with biodiesel content. YF is recommending the addition of 2 stroke oil regardless of biodiesel content. She recommends adding oil not just for it's lubricating properties but also because it results in LESS soot in the exhaust, and hence cleaner and better performing turbo.

Remember, it's being added in MUCH lower quantities than a typical two stroke petrol engine, and it's being added to a diesel engine with a very different combustion process.