to smoke or not to smoke

[gldgti]

the manual says the mk3 tank is supposed to be 55l.

when i got that range, the tank before i had not filled it to brimming, only first click (lazy). immediately after my 922.5km, i filled it to brimming and put 52.5l in it.

[mollins]

Hey all..

good to see some healthy debating and that this forum is alive and well!! hehe

Not a remap, its a piggy back. Modifying injection timing only (i'm pretty sure).

I was merely trying to point out that not all "performance modifications" are at a detriment to the environment. No real reason to tell me anything i don't already know.

Just guess here, but i think you will find the chip advances your timing which gives you better performance and efficiency, and less smoke due to longer burn time. The only problem with this (and the reason why i guess vw don't tune it this way) is because your NOx emissions increase. These gasses are mostly invisible and toxic, and are a big part of air pollution from cars.

Although the immediate effect of particulates (soot) is obvious, these mostly end up falling out of the atmosphere as dust/road grime. In the city the particulates are constantly stirred up off the roads and can cause visible smog and health problems. In somewhere like orange, particulates are not a prob as there's plenty of fresh air and not too much traffic. So its up to you which is better.

[Greg Roles]

Many people do stupid, irresponsible things when they were young. Some people then manage to grow up (slightly) !

(and yes, us Gregs can insult each other, without causing offence)

Like f$%k!! I'll have you old man....

On a lighter note, I am looking seriously into propane, and wouldn't the more complete diesel burn produce LESS soot as a result? Sure temps will rise, and NO emissions up, but I hope to counter all that with a custom, clean chip tune. I've seen the stock air/fuel ratios vs a superchip from Jaymz car, and his were a lot more "smooth" on a graph. Stock, mine are all over the place. I hope to produce both more ooomph, and less nasties than just the typical "tunes". Not looking to be a regular smoker, sorry you youngins!

[gregozedobe]

Like f$%k!! I'll have you old man....

You'll have to catch me first I'm surprisingly quick on my feet for a fat, unfit old fart (for the first 20 metres, anyway). Must be all the quick acceleration I do at dog agility trials (trying to keep up with my fit, young, slim, FAST dog ).

On a lighter note, I am looking seriously into propane, and wouldn't the more complete diesel burn produce LESS soot as a result? Sure temps will rise, and NO emissions up, but I hope to counter all that with a custom, clean chip tune. I've seen the stock air/fuel ratios vs a superchip from Jaymz car, and his were a lot more "smooth" on a graph. Stock, mine are all over the place. I hope to produce both more ooomph, and less nasties than just the typical "tunes". Not looking to be a regular smoker, sorry you youngins!

Seeing as soot is just incompletely burnt hydrocarbons, anything that helps efficient burning of all the fuel in the cylinder will likely help reduce soot.

As far as what is good and what is bad about less visible diesel exhaust outputs, that is a completely different ball game and a much more complex issue than the "soot" debate we have just had, and I have no intention whatsoever of getting involved in another debate about those.

IIRC it is a balancing act with diesel exhausts gases, when you make one better you tend to make another one worse and so forth.

I'd imagine the tuning priority should be steady state cruising and gentle acceleration, as your engine spends the vast majority of its working life doing those two. Idling would be next, then WOT last (unless you do a lot of track work you simply cannot spend much time at WOT without either killing yourself or being locked up).

[Greg Roles]

Yeah what I figured, but still, people are happier when they can't actually SEE the poison. It's kinda like a pool that is mostly pee, vs a nugget floating around. Caddyshack style!

[Buller_Scott]

the manual says the mk3 tank is supposed to be 55l.

when i got that range, the tank before i had not filled it to brimming, only first click (lazy). immediately after my 922.5km, i filled it to brimming and put 52.5l in it.

DAMN. nice economy.

[gregozedobe]

Here's a good example of what I would consider "excessive soot" - about 1 minute in (but they are all consenting adults and it is off road, so I have no problems with it in these circumstances).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yuo-HcSmj8M&feature=related

[mollins]

that is awesome.. i watched some of the other videos of truck trials, and they do some crazy stuff....

why go 4 wheel driving when you can go 8 wheel driving.??

[Jarred]

Here's a good example of what I would consider "excessive soot" - about 1 minute in (but they are all consenting adults and it is off road, so I have no problems with it in these circumstances).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yuo-H...eature=related

Yea, I'm pretty sure every one would consider that excessive! holy moooly...

how would you rate this for sooting??

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eyob52E-XVo&NR=1

[gregozedobe]

how would you rate this for sooting??

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eyob52E-XVo&NR=1

With the proviso that I don't know whether the engine was properly warm or not, I would rate that one as a bit more soot than I like to see. But going by the audio, I suspect that if the driver had let the revs build up a little before taking off (so they had some boost happening when they flattened the accelerator pedal) it is quite likely there would have been a lot less soot.

Driving technique can make a big difference to soot production/reduction.

[Greg Roles]

....way too much for normal road use. Add propane or nitrous so it burns cleaner. Simple.

EDIT: see below....add more air!!!!

[Greg Roles]

I'm most of the way through an awesome diesel tuners book from the states, and BOY does it debunk a few myths, I've learnt a STACK. The highlight of the book is interviewing industry leader Gale Banks of Banks performance, one of the guys who started toying with diesels back in the 80's, his take is smoke is that it's TOTALLY UNECESSARY and in fact just a sign of a lack of air / bad tuning.

Quote:

" When you see smoke from a diesel exhaust, it's because it doesn't have enough air to completely burn all the fuel. If it doesn't have enough air, you have to figure a way to get more air into it. Excessive smoking is power you can see, but not use. That is not smart in my book. Any guy who thinks smoking diesel engines are cool doesn't know what he is talking about. "

The editor then explains that in racing applications excess fuel IS added, but the power addition is only small.

The best $45 I have spent on the TDI to date. See "my" thread for a pic.

[Buller_Scott]

Quote:

" When you see smoke from a diesel exhaust, it's because it doesn't have enough air to completely burn all the fuel. If it doesn't have enough air, you have to figure a way to get more air into it. Excessive smoking is power you can see, but not use. That is not smart in my book. Any guy who thinks smoking diesel engines are cool doesn't know what he is talking about. "

The editor then explains that in racing applications excess fuel IS added, but the power addition is only small.

The best $45 I have spent on the TDI to date. See "my" thread for a pic.

Grrrrrr the editors of that page of the book should have inserted "excessively" inbetween "thinks" and "smoking". Banks comes across as a jackass in that last sentence.

Anyway, Cogdoc, where did you buy the book? i want one.... there is just TOO MUCH diesel tuning knowledge out there, i have come to learn......

Cheers

[GoLfMan]

yeh Banks is an absolute master.... his diesel drag truck is in the 7's now!!!

yeh cogdoc, where did you get that book? im well and truly interested

[Buller_Scott]

yeah man i got onto some diesel truck website somehow (those big trucks that dont go fast, but just pull bulldozers up dirt drag strips etc) and their turbos are running like 175psi of boost......

of course their turbos are a tiny bit bigger than our vnt15's though, lol