Installation of a Mk7 Multi-Function steering wheel + paddles into a Mk6

[tigger73]

As the title of the thread states I've recently purchased a Mk7 GTI steering wheel with paddle shifters and am looking to install this into a Mk6 (well Tiguan actually).

The steering wheel bolts in OK and connectors match with the Mk6 steering column. I've managed to get the horn and paddle shifters working, however there's a problem with getting the other buttons to work properly.



Currently the "OK" button turns the stereo volume down and the MFD screen left/right navigation changes stations. So either it needs to get fixed by wiring or coding (or both).

Has anyone done this wheel swap before?

I've aware of a couple of people having done it overseas, however just wanting to see if anyone has done this locally.

Any assistance/suggestions welcome!

[tigger73]

Currently investigating whether the wiring harness that I have is the correct part. The one that I have is 5G0.971.584.E

The reason I'm a little unsure is that there were 2 x earth spade connectors, however only 1 x terminal.

[YellowLemon]

I've aware of a couple of people having done it overseas, however just wanting to see if anyone has done this locally.

Hi mate I looked into doing this (when I saw that mk7 wheel for sale for a bargain price on this forum hehe) but after extensive research I believe getting the buttons working exactly right may not be possible due to the software differences between the Tig (based on Mk6 with the SWCM and BCM) and mk7 models (where the BCM controls all the MFSW stuff and there is no more SWCM under the steering column).

Essentially the MFSW talks to the SWCM or BCM via a single-wire LIN bus, so if you've got some buttons working, and the button lighting is working (is your button lighting working with your lights? the buttons light up in white on the wheel?) then 99% sure your wiring is fine. Especially if horn and paddles are working OK then the wiring is fine.

Now, if you set your SWCM to LINbus version 1.X then you will have different buttons working compared to if you set your SWCM to LINBUS version 2.0 (you can set the version with VCDS under SWCM coding)

This is because the SWCM is interpreting the signals from the wheel, and sending out signals on the CAN bus. This is why the paddles are working flawlessly because the AUTO XMISSION MODULE obviously picks up the CAN signals fine. But for whatever reason either the SWCM is not interpreting the LIN correctly for the mk7 wheel, or it is indeed interpreting the LIN but sending out CAN signals that the RNS radio and BCM or INSTR LUSTER can't understand, or misunderstands (like page L/R changing stations rather than pages, this is the RNS responding to CAN messages that the BCM or INSTR. CLUSTER should be responding to )

If you had a LINbus and CANbus listening device you could sus it out exactly what messages are being sent out or retransmitted. You could maybe even program an ATmel controller to get it all to work (this is how I have a MFSW in my mk4 golf! custom ATmel chip translating the LINbus wheel button signals to PIONEER signals ) but that would take serious effort.

At this point I would try:
a) coding the SWCM to LINbus versions 1 or 2 and see what changes happen, eg. one overseas guy got all the buttons working perfect but no horn, OR horn OK and weird buttons. But he couldn't get it perfect. At least this would prove the issue is underlying LINbus incompatibility.
b) Post us a full VCDS scan of your car, and also maybe a link to the overseas forum where you saw this allegedly work?

Then you could either electroncally microdissect the wheel and rewire it, or somehow hack a mk6 MFSW control module into there and solder the mk7 button connections, OR bite the bullet and get the proper mk6 wheel and it'll all just work

I'm happy to be proven wrong and would love to hear of someone getting a mk7 wheel working 100% on mk6 platform (except the cruise control buttons? they are on the wheel in the mk7 now, right??)

[YellowLemon]

Oops sorry having seen the thread on the VCDS forum "mk7 wheel in mk6" I believe it might actually be possible, I retract my above post The harness used in the mk6 wheel is this one:

5K0 971 584 (A) (just 5K vs 5N!)

And yes like the VCDS forum thread says, the 5K harness has colour coded wires whereas the mk6 harness has all-black wires. If only he had posted a photo or diagram of how he rewired the harness to get it to work!!

Good luck!

[tigger73]

Hi mate I looked into doing this (when I saw that mk7 wheel for sale for a bargain price on this forum hehe) but after extensive research I believe getting the buttons working exactly right may not be possible due to the software differences between the Tig (based on Mk6 with the SWCM and BCM) and mk7 models (where the BCM controls all the MFSW stuff and there is no more SWCM under the steering column).

OK looks like you did a bit more research than I did before committing to the purchase!

Essentially the MFSW talks to the SWCM or BCM via a single-wire LIN bus, so if you've got some buttons working, and the button lighting is working (is your button lighting working with your lights? the buttons light up in white on the wheel?) then 99% sure your wiring is fine. Especially if horn and paddles are working OK then the wiring is fine.

Paddles and horn work. 3 buttons work but don't do the functions that they are meant/designed to. No button illumination

Now, if you set your SWCM to LINbus version 1.X then you will have different buttons working compared to if you set your SWCM to LINBUS version 2.0 (you can set the version with VCDS under SWCM coding)

This is because the SWCM is interpreting the signals from the wheel, and sending out signals on the CAN bus. This is why the paddles are working flawlessly because the AUTO XMISSION MODULE obviously picks up the CAN signals fine. But for whatever reason either the SWCM is not interpreting the LIN correctly for the mk7 wheel, or it is indeed interpreting the LIN but sending out CAN signals that the RNS radio and BCM or INSTR LUSTER can't understand, or misunderstands (like page L/R changing stations rather than pages, this is the RNS responding to CAN messages that the BCM or INSTR. CLUSTER should be responding to )

If you had a LINbus and CANbus listening device you could sus it out exactly what messages are being sent out or retransmitted. You could maybe even program an ATmel controller to get it all to work (this is how I have a MFSW in my mk4 golf! custom ATmel chip translating the LINbus wheel button signals to PIONEER signals ) but that would take serious effort.

Currently set to Linbus ver 2.0. I think the Mk6 SWCM is getting junk and the only commands that it can interpret are the ones for the channel up/down and volume down. I think I'll leave ATmel controllers as a last resort!

At this point I would try:
a) coding the SWCM to LINbus versions 1 or 2 and see what changes happen, eg. one overseas guy got all the buttons working perfect but no horn, OR horn OK and weird buttons. But he couldn't get it perfect. At least this would prove the issue is underlying LINbus incompatibility.
b) Post us a full VCDS scan of your car, and also maybe a link to the overseas forum where you saw this allegedly work?

Then you could either electroncally microdissect the wheel and rewire it, or somehow hack a mk6 MFSW control module into there and solder the mk7 button connections, OR bite the bullet and get the proper mk6 wheel and it'll all just work

I've looked at some of the overseas sellers saying their wheels are compatible and they are actually Mk7 "style" wheels with the old Mk6 buttons. Also there was one guy on Ross-Tech that said he got it working by changing the pinout of his cables. Unfortunately he didn't post up the "new" pinout but at least everything should be there to get things working. The only thing he didn't get working was the button illumination.

I'm happy to be proven wrong and would love to hear of someone getting a mk7 wheel working 100% on mk6 platform (except the cruise control buttons? they are on the wheel in the mk7 now, right??)

Yes cruise control buttons are on the Mk7 wheel. I'm not that fussed about these - just really need to get the phone and MFD controls going plus volume/channel for the RNS. The reason I got the wheel as I figured it was a cheap way to get some paddle shifters and my wife liked the look of the Mk7 wheel. And yes agree that the Mk6 is probably nicer/better button layout.

Though in both Mk6 & 7 the cruise control is a bit of a mess. You can't see the stalk in the Mk6 and the splattering of buttons on the Mk7 wheel is a bit much for easy use.

[marcrae19]

Hey Fellas

I was the guy on the VCDS forum asking the guy to post up his wiring diagram. I am also keen to get this mod done. Yellow Lemon and i have traded messages previously on this topic as well. I have a T5 and bought the MK7 wheel unaware of the change to MQB.

I am currently speaking with a guy in germany who has made a converter but is telling me that he cant make the paddle shift work. If you can share how you got the paddleshift to work i can go back to him with that info and see what he says.

Im also talking to a guy in mexico who sells the MK7 wheels (true MK7, not the Sirocco version) and claims that they are compatible with MK6.

Very keen to be a part of the solution here.

Cheers
Marc

[marcrae19]

.... and i showed the vcds thread to the german guys and they are calling BS on that whole rewiring scenario. I have zero experience to call either way. The guys im dealing with are oem-plus-tuning and bronken.de

[tigger73]

OK so here's where I'm up to. I've installed the wheel and enabled the paddle shifters with VCDS - same as with a Mk6 wheel. The paddle shifters work - don't ask me how these work and the other stuff doesn't but they do.

I'm currently following down 3 paths to try and get information on how to get the steering wheel buttons operating and/or confirm that it 100% can be done:

• Contacted the seller in Mexico that sells the Mk7 wheel for Mk6 - ebay seller vwrtuning
• Attempted to contact the Romanian guy on Ross-tech that claims to have solved this through wiring change
• Contacted user Halpo (user on Edition 38, VWVortex, VWW) who has installed a Mk7 wheel into a Tiguan and got everything working except the cruise control buttons

Also the wiring harness that I have has been damaged so I'm not discounting this as being the issue either. However from the info I have there's a little more required. The other thing of note is that the Mk7 harness only has 4 wires running out of the black connector whereas the Mk6 harness has 5.

Mk6 wiring harness (5 black wires go into black connector):



Mk7 wiring harness (4 multi-colour wires go into black connector):



Halpo said it was just plug and play so I'm trying to find out whether he has the same wiring harness or if it's just because mine is damaged.

[marcrae19]

Is halpo definitely running the MK7 wheel or is it the look a like that still runs PQ35?

I have also tried several times to get Sean1987 from VCDS to respond without luck. The other guy, spacewalker, is who i contacted to get his view. He seems to think it's all BS because the language between the two platform is different. One is CAN and one is LIN... or something like that but there is a difference. Again, I'm no expert.

Have you done the rewiring exercise that Sean1987 spoke about? Seems to me we need someone with the skill to be willing to go through that process.

I have also msgd matt from vagnostics in the UK who said he could get everything to work except cruise control.

I have just msg'd Dean @ vw central on facebook which is a guy here in Melb. I was talking to him about it a couple of months ago. I have showed him the forum with Sean1987. See what he says

[marcrae19]

dean is out. it's not something they want to look at.

[tigger73]

Halpo definitely has a Mk7 wheel with the cruise control on the steering wheel (this is the only bit that didn't work for him). I've asked if he can confirm the wiring/part number/supplier for his wheel/harness.

Have you actually fitted your Mk7 wheel? My next step is to try tracing the wires to check what wire is connected where in the mk6 vs mk7 harness. At the end of the day the only thing that connects to the car is the big yellow clip and the pinout of this must match up to get things working. If VW has changed things back from there (which I find strange but is possible) then it should just plug together and work.

As I said in my previous post I have a damaged clip on my wiring harness and can't be 100% certain that I won't have to replace the harness. Also there is a "spare" brown wire/spade terminal that I couldn't find a home for so I've taped this up. I'm sure this is not how it was designed, however I've searched all over and can't for the life of me find where this is supposed to go. The only thing I can think of is that in some other Mk7 models that there's an additional connection for the horn which is the case in the mk6.

[YellowLemon]

One is CAN and one is LIN...

They are both LIN protocol (single wire bus) the difference is: on PQ35 it's the SWCM that intercepts the LIN commands and translates them and puts them on the CANbus, whereas is MQB it's BCM that intercepts the LIN signal and puts them on the CANbus.

But I can't see why VW would change the LIN bus commands between the wheels so in theory it should work

You won't know for sure unless you stick a LINbus / CANbus sniffer on the busses to see what signals are being sent around. It's a shame we don't have any pro shops around in Australia like VAGnostics in the UK who are interested in this stuff

[hogster]

I wanted to get the mk7 gti steering wheel for my mk5 gti but decided against because of all these issues.

If the wheel came without the msfw buttons and only dsg would it work in a mk5 golf?

[tigger73]

OK I've done a bit of tracing for the Mk6 and Mk7 wiring harness.

Here's the connections on the Mk6 wiring harness:



And for the Mk7 harness the major difference is the connection of the horn and the use of an additional pin on the Yellow connector:



Also the other thing which I really have no idea about is the operation of the control module that the black connector attaches to (which talks to the buttons/paddles). This sits in the bottom of the mk6 wheel but is "hidden" behind the cruise control buttons in the mk7.

Clearly in Mk6 the horn is routed through this module, however on Mk7 it's connected direct to the yellow connector.

The weird thing is that the horn still works without having to rewire anything so I'm still scratching my head.

Unfortunately I don't have any tools to determine what the function of each pin is and to listen in on any comms.

[YellowLemon]

Ah of course it's not working, the wiring is all wrong. Those diagrams are helpful. If you are game, then rewire the Mk7 harness yellow connector, moving pin 11 -> pin 8. And moving the old PIN 8 wire (horn) onto the black connector PIN 4. So it looks like the Mk6 harness basically. Or just use the mk6 harness?? Then it should work. No guarantees it doesn't blow up.

The weird thing is that the horn still works without having to rewire anything so I'm still scratching my head.

Basically on mk6 cars without the MFL buttons (like my T5.2 as delivered), the horn is routed into the yellow connector directly because there isn't a little black box in the wheel at all. Whereas with the MFSW wheel, the black box in the wheel handles the horn and sends a LINbus command to the BCM to drive the horn. So in a mk6 car like your Tig, pin 8 has a dual function - either horn (when sent to gnd) or data (when connected to a black MFSW box). This is why it (paradoxically) works in your car without rewiring. It seems in MQB they just added an extra pin 11 for the data. But your PQ35 car would like to see this data on pin 8!!

Also:

This guy Peter scoped out the LINbus commands on the mk7 wheel like this (see photo)



LINK: Golf 7 Lenkrad, ich hab's ... | TX-Board - das T5 / T6 Forum

And he built an adapter so it can be used in a mk5 car (LIN v 1.6)
including the cruise control buttons!

But it's pricey:
CAN BUS TP1.6 Lenkrad Adapter Golf 7 Lenkrad - Online Shop OEM-plus-tuning

I've asked him about the differences in LIN between mk7/mk6 I'll let you know if I hear back.

As an aside: are you sure the mk7 harness you have is the correct one for your wheel? Then why is there a loose/spare horn connector? What is the history of the mk7 wheel, did the original seller get it off eBay? Or from mexico? Maybe ask them?