SFD2 and VCDS

[VR28LT]

Hi guys , just recently took delivery of a brand new Allspace Wolfsburg ... Is it still possible to use VCDS or OBDeleven to reset service indicators and release the park brake to swap out rear pads ? Ive heard that these SFD2 equipped cars now do not respond to coding changes which is what it is but does that mean service items can only be done at the dealership now ?

[gerhard]

You can do simple things like that - I have done both these things you mention with OBD11. Not sure about VCDS, but I think it's not there yet.

[DV52]

@VR28LT: Hi.

OK - so you have decided to go the VCDS route instead of OBD11? Ain't nothing wrong with that choice. They are both very good diagnostic devices IMO - albeit I keep reading on the Ross-Tech forum that the competitor tool is called a "toy". I suspect this pejorative descriptor is more about ill-informed blind loyalty to VCDS because IMHO, OBD11 is just as good as VCDS and in some areas it way surpasses the Ross-Tech device!

An obvious example of the better tool is how each diagnostic device treats SFD- despite multiple assurances that VCDS will have an integrated solution for SFD, and regardless that these promises have persisted for almost 5 years, VCDS still isn't compatible!! Alas this means that as things stand today - your new VCDS device is ...........well, "as useful as a fart in a space suit" on any VAG vehicle built after 2020 (forgive my choice of adage)!!

BUT - you have purchased VCDS, so I suggest that you put it to (limited) use - at least as much as is possible!

My advice is to first confirm which form of protection protocol infects your new car (incidentally, congratulations on the purchase!!). I'm not sure about "a brand new Allspace Wolfsburg" - likely it will have SFD2 (I hope that it doesn't), but it's worth confirming your assumption IMO!

Create a SCAN report for the car and review the details of the key modules:

Below are a couple of examples of modules with SFD protection from VCDS scans:

Canada 2022 Golf GTE
Address 17: Instruments (J285)
Part No SW: 5H0 920 340 B HW: 5H0 920 340 B
Component: KOMBI 220 5370
Dataset Number: V03935353UH 0001
Coding: 08BC02427B9CCF050280620B2000000830300000
ASAM Dataset: EV_DashBoardVDDMQB37W 003033
ROD: EV_DashBoardVDDMQB37W_003_VW38.rod
VCID: 211489E2D14B964200D-8074 SFD

NAR 2022 Golf R
Address 17: Instruments (J285)
Part No SW: 5H0 920 340 B HW: 5H0 920 340 B
Component: KOMBI 220 5350
Dataset Number: V03935353UH 0001
Coding: 04AC02407B9C00080180620B2000080810300000
ASAM Dataset: EV_DashBoardVDDMQB37W 003033
ROD: EV_DashBoardVDDMQB37W_003_VW38.rod
VCID: 210A021930D65E9BE4-8074 SFD

Notice the word "SFD" on the VCID field!

And below is an example of a module from VCDS for a vehicle that has SFD2:

EU 2024 Tiguan
Address 2B: Steer. Col. Lock (J764)
Part No SW: 3WA 905 861 HW: 3WA 905 861
Component: ELV-MQB_UNECE H05 0063
Serial number: 24000092736002 Dataset Number: V03935396MA 0001
Coding: 8820000000000000
Shop #: WSC 01357 011 00200
ASAM Dataset: EV_ELVMarqUNECE 003006
ROD: EV_ELVMarqUNECE.rod
VCID: 084D55ABC2B7D10A2FB-805C-R SFD

Notice that whilst VCDS still reports "SFD" in the VCID field, there are references to UNECE in multiple fields. UNECE = United Nations Economic Commission for Europe - this is the umbrella organization under which SFD2 is used by VAG.

So, bottom-line:

1. If the SCAN mentions "SFD" in the VCID field - VCDS can NOT open those modules that have this designation without first getting TOKENs via a separate convoluted process (this process is not applicable to "enthusiast" VCDS users). That said, this car likely also will have modules that do NOT have the designation. These modules can be accessed and coded, and the "normal" 5 x digit security codes apply
2. If the SCAN mentions "UNECE" in any of the module fields - the entire CAN/Ethernet network on this car is locked and very little can be done with VCDS, alas!!

For fairness, I need to end with few words about OBD11 - unlike VCDS, this tool DOES work on cars that have SFD protection and the software is now stable because it has been operating for multiple years across many models and across many VAG brands. However, like VCDS - OBD11 also does NOT yet work properly with the newest SFD2 protocols (and AFAIK, neither does any other third-market diagnostic device).

And finally for absolute balance, OBD11 has its own set of disadvantages - like the appalling and unfathomable format of its structured reports (which I suspect were designed by a code-cutter on the OBD11 mother-ship that was taking hallucinogenic drugs !!! ). VCDS does a much better job of this aspect of a diagnostic device - again, IMO of course

Don

[VR28LT]

@VR28LT: Hi.

OK - so you have decided to go the VCDS route instead of OBD11? Ain't nothing wrong with that choice. They are both very good diagnostic devices IMO - albeit I keep reading on the Ross-Tech forum that the competitor tool is called a "toy". I suspect this pejorative descriptor is more about ill-informed blind loyalty to VCDS because IMHO, OBD11 is just as good as VCDS and in some areas it way surpasses the Ross-Tech device!

An obvious example of the better tool is how each diagnostic device treats SFD- despite multiple assurances that VCDS will have an integrated solution for SFD, and regardless that these promises have persisted for almost 5 years, VCDS still isn't compatible!! Alas this means that as things stand today - your new VCDS device is ...........well, "as useful as a fart in a space suit" on any VAG vehicle built after 2020 (forgive my choice of adage)!!

BUT - you have purchased VCDS, so I suggest that you put it to (limited) use - at least as much as is possible!

My advice is to first confirm which form of protection protocol infects your new car (incidentally, congratulations on the purchase!!). I'm not sure about "a brand new Allspace Wolfsburg" - likely it will have SFD2 (I hope that it doesn't), but it's worth confirming your assumption IMO!

Create a SCAN report for the car and review the details of the key modules:

Below are a couple of examples of modules with SFD protection from VCDS scans:

Canada 2022 Golf GTE
Address 17: Instruments (J285)
Part No SW: 5H0 920 340 B HW: 5H0 920 340 B
Component: KOMBI 220 5370
Dataset Number: V03935353UH 0001
Coding: 08BC02427B9CCF050280620B2000000830300000
ASAM Dataset: EV_DashBoardVDDMQB37W 003033
ROD: EV_DashBoardVDDMQB37W_003_VW38.rod
VCID: 211489E2D14B964200D-8074 SFD

NAR 2022 Golf R
Address 17: Instruments (J285)
Part No SW: 5H0 920 340 B HW: 5H0 920 340 B
Component: KOMBI 220 5350
Dataset Number: V03935353UH 0001
Coding: 04AC02407B9C00080180620B2000080810300000
ASAM Dataset: EV_DashBoardVDDMQB37W 003033
ROD: EV_DashBoardVDDMQB37W_003_VW38.rod
VCID: 210A021930D65E9BE4-8074 SFD

Notice the word "SFD" on the VCID field!

And below is an example of a module from VCDS for a vehicle that has SFD2:

EU 2024 Tiguan
Address 2B: Steer. Col. Lock (J764)
Part No SW: 3WA 905 861 HW: 3WA 905 861
Component: ELV-MQB_UNECE H05 0063
Serial number: 24000092736002 Dataset Number: V03935396MA 0001
Coding: 8820000000000000
Shop #: WSC 01357 011 00200
ASAM Dataset: EV_ELVMarqUNECE 003006
ROD: EV_ELVMarqUNECE.rod
VCID: 084D55ABC2B7D10A2FB-805C-R SFD

Notice that whilst VCDS still reports "SFD" in the VCID field, there are references to UNECE in multiple fields. UNECE = United Nations Economic Commission for Europe - this is the umbrella organization under which SFD2 is used by VAG.

So, bottom-line:

1. If the SCAN mentions "SFD" in the VCID field - VCDS can NOT open those modules that have this designation without first getting TOKENs via a separate convoluted process (this process is not applicable to "enthusiast" VCDS users). That said, this car likely also will have modules that do NOT have the designation. These modules can be accessed and coded, and the "normal" 5 x digit security codes apply
2. If the SCAN mentions "UNECE" in any of the module fields - the entire CAN/Ethernet network on this car is locked and very little can be done with VCDS, alas!!

For fairness, I need to end with few words about OBD11 - unlike VCDS, this tool DOES work on cars that have SFD protection and the software is now stable because it has been operating for multiple years across many models and across many VAG brands. However, like VCDS - OBD11 also does NOT yet work properly with the newest SFD2 protocols (and AFAIK, neither does any other third-market diagnostic device).

And finally for absolute balance, OBD11 has its own set of disadvantages - like the appalling and unfathomable format of its structured reports (which I suspect were designed by a code-cutter on the OBD11 mother-ship that was taking hallucinogenic drugs !!! ). VCDS does a much better job of this aspect of a diagnostic device - again, IMO of course

Don

Hi Don

I have been using VCDS for well over a decade and a half now and it's been great, this particular cable was purchased back in 2020 when I had a Octavia RS and a 162 Tiguan . I have looked at the OBDeleven devices and would like to buy one however with this SFD2 stuff going on with VAG I'm unsure if I would be wasting my time and money .

Im not too fussed about the coding changes however I would like to do simple things like releasing the park brake to carry out a pad change or reset a service light warning etc etc

[gerhard]

Hi Don

I have been using VCDS for well over a decade and a half now and it's been great, this particular cable was purchased back in 2020 when I had a Octavia RS and a 162 Tiguan . I have looked at the OBDeleven devices and would like to buy one however with this SFD2 stuff going on with VAG I'm unsure if I would be wasting my time and money .

Im not too fussed about the coding changes however I would like to do simple things like releasing the park brake to carry out a pad change or reset a service light warning etc etc

Perhaps you didn't see my earlier post where I stated that I have used OBD11 to do rear brakes and reset service indiactor on my 2023 SFD2 T0ROC R

[DV52]

R28LT : Hi.

I'm ALWAYS a big fan of following advice from folk that have actually done stuff with their diagnostic devices - so I respectfully bow to gerhard's advice which is in the post before this reply!!

That said, I'm very surprised that it was possible to use ANY diagnostic device (other than the dealer tool ODIS) to unlock even the most basic servicing functions on a vehicle with SFD2 protection.

With absolutely no offense intended to gerhard - my strong hunch is that his "2023 T-ROC R" does not have SFD2! In fact I suspect that his car doesn't have any version of SFD!

Again with no offense - according to the T-ROC wiki site HERE, the "first generation" version of this car are sold from "2017 - present". This means that a "2023 T-ROC R" is a "first generation" model.

The wiki site identifies that current release T-ROCs are ALL built with a Volkswagen Group MQB A1 platform - so they share the same DNA as other models with a MQB build, like Golf mk7, Audi A3 8V, and many others. Further down the wiki site, the following statement is made about the "second generation" T-ROC that was due in 2025 (I'm not sure if these cars are available in Australia yet):

"The second-generation T-Roc is built on the MQB Evo platform, which it shares with the Golf Mk8.5"

So, using the T-ROC wiki information:

• MQB platform cars like the "2023 TROC R" use the normal 5 x digit security codes to unlock modules.
• MQB Evo platform cars have SFD/SFD2 protection

Don

[DV52]

VR28LT: To extend the dialogue from my previous post - let's deal with your specific questions in this reply.

I don't know if you adopted the advice in my earlier post - so I suggest again:

"My advice is to first confirm which form of protection protocol infects your new car"

I keep saying in my replies that I intend no offense because words can easily be misinterpreted. But my caveat needs to be said because I'm not sure that I believe the underlying premise in your first post which links your "brand new Allspace Wolfsburg" with SFD2 protection. Hence my suggestion above that you confirm how this car was actually built!

My hunch (hope) is that your car and gerhard's T-ROC share the same MQB platform build. So, I suggest that you fire-up your VCDS device and make a SCAN report as a priority (before you make a decision to throw money at any other diagnostic device)

Look though the module details in the SCAN, for the SFD terms that I identify in my previous post. Maybe post-up a copy? Best scenario is that you do NOT find the SFD terms!

Don

[gerhard]

Intersting info, the 2023 T-ROC is an update to the first generation vehicle. The update is to the EA888.4 engine vs the EA888.3, but it seems that it's still a first gen despite this.

I assumed (wrongly) that my Roc would have SFD2 because the DQ381 transmission had protection against flashing for a very long time - none of the tuners cracked it. I sent my VIN to Racingline UK but they didn't state mine could be tuned. (although Guy states he can tune them now)

So it's interesting that although there is no SFD protection and it's still a first gen, VCDS doesn't support the vehicle fully.

I did run a VCDS scan and kept the log - here is address 17
Address 17: Instruments (J285) Labels:. 5G0-920-XXX-17.clb
Part No SW: 17A 920 320 C HW: 17A 920 320 C
Component: KOMBI 551 6220
Dataset Number: V03935373BR 0001
Coding: 25AC0018FF8800080188624B1001000080000706
Shop #: WSC 00016 035 00131
ASAM Dataset: EV_DashBoardVDDMQBA0 001048
ROD: N/A
VCID: 1C37617717ABCE76BF-8048

Unsupported vehicle.Please upgrade to a current Ross-Tech interface.

And address 2B
Address 2B: Steer. Col. Lock (J764) Labels:. 1EA-905-861.clb
Part No SW: 2Q0 905 861 A HW: 2Q0 905 861 A
Component: ELV-MQBB H10 0021
Serial number: 23000027086016 Dataset Number: V03935272PH 0001
Coding: 0800000000000000
Shop #: WSC 00016 035 00131
ASAM Dataset: EV_ELVMarqMQBA0 002002
ROD: N/A
VCID: 3169A0C36029531EFC-8064

Unsupported vehicle.Please upgrade to a current Ross-Tech interface.

[DV52]

gerhard: Hmm.... OK
At least it's reassuring that the wiki information seems correct!

As for your VCDS device - my strong hunch is that you might be using a "legacy" product - maybe you have a HEX+CAN?

If so, the problem is that the the design of HEX+CAN is almost 20 years old and whilst Ross-Tech does continuously upgrade the software - the HEX+CAN has a binding hardware limitation on cars that use the latest OBDII Standard.

The issue for HEX+CAN is that it is unable to meet the increased Byte requirements in the new Standard and your T-ROC uses this Standard for some of its modules (like the 17 and 2B modules). That's why some modules are correctly recognized in your SCAN and some are not

So, the incompatibility problem is unrelated to SFD/SFD2. To solve this issue, you need to throw money at one of the newer HEXNET devices. However, whilst HEXNET is fully compliant with the latest OBDII Standard - it DOES face the SFD problems discussed earlier - at least until Ross-Tech provide a workable solution for the enthusiast market.

Don