Stage 3 questions

[Heavy]

Hey guys,

I currently have a Stage 2+ APR MK6 R and will be getting a bigger turbo as soon as I can figure out which way to go. Current list of parts are as follows:

APR HPFP
APR LPFP
Armytrix Turbo back
APR Front mount
APR Runner flap delete
VWR Intake
034 dogbone insert

I know the LPFP is wasted on Stage 2 as APR dont offer a file for it but after speaking with them directly they have advised its a good way to go in prep for Stage 3. Now obviously the APR kit would be the safest option as it should just bolt straight on and the upgrade to the tune wont cost a lot. HOWEVER, at around 10k I am finding it really hard to justify considering the amount of options out there for bolt on turbo upgrades at around half the price.

My question is for people who have gone down this path or know a bit about it, am I now tied into APR due to parts list I have or can I buy a GTX2867r bolt on kit elsewhere and have it matched to the APR tune. Or have a custom set up installed with a custom tune?

I am looking to get solid 450-500hp at the engine on my unopened engine. I am prepared to build it when it expires but thats not part of my plan at this point in time.

Any info would be great guys. I have spoken to a couple of people who have gone Stage 3 but I am after as much information as I can get. There does not seem to be a lot of shops around that have experience with these builds.

Thanks

[guile]

i had exactly the same scenario, same mods and was chasing the same power...

as far as i know APR now produces a tune for the TTE420 hybrid turbo but don't quote me on this. although i did read it on the internet at audisport.net so it must be true...

dsg or manual is something that will be very relevant....

good luck mate and interested to see how you go...

[Heavy]

i had exactly the same scenario, same mods and was chasing the same power...

as far as i know APR now produces a tune for the TTE420 hybrid turbo but don't quote me on this. although i did read it on the internet at audisport.net so it must be true...

dsg or manual is something that will be very relevant....

good luck mate and interested to see how you go...

Hey mate thanks for the reply!

I believe they do offer that setup on their website which is probably why the new APR replacement OEM+ will be offering a stage 3 kit with that turbo.

I run a DSG and have the stage 2 tune already installed. I think if I went the TTE or and ATP 2867 equivalent I would throw in the APR DSG clutch pack with the money saved.

[Corey_R]

APR do offer the TTE420 for the MK6 Golf R:
APR’s TTE420 Turbo ECU Upgrade for K04 equipped 2.0T vehicles!

I don't personally see the appeal of it though, apart from it being cheaper. The TTE420 is actually the K04, which is then modified to be better.
You're giving up 50hp+ over the GTX2867R turbo though.

[Heavy]

APR do offer the TTE420 for the MK6 Golf R:
APR’s TTE420 Turbo ECU Upgrade for K04 equipped 2.0T vehicles!

I don't personally see the appeal of it though, apart from it being cheaper. The TTE420 is actually the K04, which is then modified to be better.
You're giving up 50hp+ over the GTX2867R turbo though.

I was thinking something like this.

450HP - GTX2867R Stock Location Turbo & Manifold for 2.0T FSI / TSI Models : atpturbo.com

Would that bolt up to my current set up and work with the APR LPFP if I had it custom tuned or stay with APR Stage 3 software?

[seangti]

Hey mate thanks for the reply!

I believe they do offer that setup on their website which is probably why the new APR replacement OEM+ will be offering a stage 3 kit with that turbo.

Just to clarify, OEM+ is only an "APR replacement", same as any other tune. Guy Harding had national distribution rights for APR. Without getting political, APR US changed the distribution rights so that the APR dealers purchase the tunes/files direct from APR US, cutting out Guy.

As a result, Guy/Harding Performance no longer represents APR. His new software/product line is OEM+.

OEM+ is not APR in any way, and vice versa, different brands, likewise with any tuner.

[Lucas_R]

Personally the TTE420 would be a good upgrade for a GTI, but with the R's extra weight, the k04 just doesnt cut it (in my opinion). If you are going to that expense and level of modification, you want the Garrett GTX2876 at a minimum. Borg Warner also make some nice twin scroll turbos but they are more expensive - but the Garrett is well proven and affordable. A local company, Tarmac Engineering make a bolt on kit using the Garrett turbo and can also supply a tune to suit. APR are not at all flexible (and are very expensive) so you might need to scrap them.

The problem with ATP products is that they are made for the US market, and many of the manifolds/turbos/pipework have clearance issues on Aussie delivered cars due to left hand drive vs right hand drive. The guys at Tarmac Engineering went to great lengths to make a true bolt on kit for Aussie cars.

[Heavy]

Thanks Lucas thats awesome info!

I know there would be no harm at all going with APR but its such a huge outlay of cash which is already adding up and more importantly I am then locked down to APR and will have to roll it all back if I wanted to use a bigger turbo or custom bits.

Ill have a look at Tarmac. Only being Stage 2+ so far means I still have a few options with big turbo and tunes if I dont stay with APR but maybe have to scrap the LPFP

[guile]

i agree a lot more options are available now then when i went with the tte420. the reason i chose it was that i didn't want to outlay the cash for apr and wanted to stay internally gated...

is the tte the greatest upgrade in power, probably not. does it put a smile on your face over stage 2+, definitely...

good info on here and good luck with whatever you choose but like Lucas i'm was very weary about US based kits after reading about numerous fitment issues. as my car is a daily driver my criteria was increased power without any substitution in reliability...

[seangti]

Check out Underground Performance for tuning. I think they are Melbourne based, you can find em on facebook. I'm sure it's a member on here, but who exactly it is evades me at the moment. They do custom tuning, so run whatever you like.

Not sure what Custom Code's capability. Worth a msg to Gavin, H100vw.

[Heavy]

Check out Underground Performance for tuning. I think they are Melbourne based, you can find em on facebook. I'm sure it's a member on here, but who exactly it is evades me at the moment. They do custom tuning, so run whatever you like.

Not sure what Custom Code's capability. Worth a msg to Gavin, H100vw.

Hey mate thanks for the heads up. Yeah I know of those guys. I don't believe it's custom though. I have been told they use a preset tune from Vag motorsports and then customise some variables. I looked into it before I went APR. When I think of custom I think of hours of dyno time remapping the Ecu to achieve the most efficient delivery of air and fuel.

Sitting in old mates car on the side of the road with a laptop altering a preloaded tune is not something I would be chasing when dropping 10k on a quality turbo big turbo kit.

Ther really isn't many people out there that do fully customised tunes for these cars and you can understand why when the likes of APR, REVO, GIAC so on have such great results.

[seangti]

Yeah, you're not wrong. I run VAGAutowerks tunes on both my polo's, daily and stage 3 track car. I was running Superchips on my daily, but after learning to read the logs, it was running way too lean for my comfort so got another tune. I came out of Subaru's, so the only way to run external tuning boxes and dyno time.

My comfort with this approach comes from logging the car and reviewing all the parameters. I'm not sure how the later model cars are logged, but the Polo/mkIV era use ME7 Logger which has a much higher resolution than VCDS offers. 20hz sampling on ME7 Vs VCDS at around 0.8hz. And you can log ~60 parameters at a time as opposed to 9.

For OBD tuning purposes, I feel that level of resolution and transparency is essential, particularly under the conditions it gets driven. Through what I know now, if you get an OBD tune it should have the logs to back it up, just like a dyno operator would provide. I'd be comfortable working with VAGAutowerks/Underground for the tuning, as once done, you can always put it on the dyno for validation, they should also discuss the logs with you as they develop the tune. Any concerns with the results, you can go back to them to tweak the tune. For my track polo, we ran 6+ tunes/logs to get it to a point of comfort. I've since had left foot braking engaged since installing a LSD, they can do torque limiting and many other things.

I've spoken with my local mechanic, he runs a large VW Golf rally team in china and builds rally/race EVO's in Brisbane. He was most impressed with the tuning and logging software.

I'll always refrain from tuning war banter, though I think they should provide greater transparency of the parameters that are changed and log the cars rather than an upload and send you away.

[Heavy]

Yeah, you're not wrong. I run VAGAutowerks tunes on both my polo's, daily and stage 3 track car. I was running Superchips on my daily, but after learning to read the logs, it was running way too lean for my comfort so got another tune. I came out of Subaru's, so the only way to run external tuning boxes and dyno time.

My comfort with this approach comes from logging the car and reviewing all the parameters. I'm not sure how the later model cars are logged, but the Polo/mkIV era use ME7 Logger which has a much higher resolution than VCDS offers. 20hz sampling on ME7 Vs VCDS at around 0.8hz. And you can log ~60 parameters at a time as opposed to 9.

For OBD tuning purposes, I feel that level of resolution and transparency is essential, particularly under the conditions it gets driven. Through what I know now, if you get an OBD tune it should have the logs to back it up, just like a dyno operator would provide. I'd be comfortable working with VAGAutowerks/Underground for the tuning, as once done, you can always put it on the dyno for validation, they should also discuss the logs with you as they develop the tune. Any concerns with the results, you can go back to them to tweak the tune. For my track polo, we ran 6+ tunes/logs to get it to a point of comfort. I've since had left foot braking engaged since installing a LSD, they can do torque limiting and many other things.

I've spoken with my local mechanic, he runs a large VW Golf rally team in china and builds rally/race EVO's in Brisbane. He was most impressed with the tuning and logging software.

I'll always refrain from tuning war banter, though I think they should provide greater transparency of the parameters that are changed and log the cars rather than an upload and send you away.

Great info mate thanks heaps!!

I have never logged my cars, might have to start experimenting.

[parso_rex]

I think you guys need to look around a bit more
There are really only two places in Aus that modify files for the VAG's locally and that would be Ben and myself. There's also a few more turbo options around now too. (I'll get some pics), still location is the OP's problem so he may be stuck with APR.

Also worth noting, you don't need clutch packs for a Stage 3 Cars with a 2867GTX or less if you know what to do with the DSG software infact we'll soon see how the stock clutches handle a 3076GTX - they've been fine up till now
I'm re-tuning an APR stage 3 car in Perth shortly so it will be good to see how we go on the normal customer file.

[Heavy]

PM'd you mate!