building a 2L 8v for turbo?

[GoLfMan]

As far as I know, ( I spoke to the bugger last nite) Josh just wants a turbo'd 2L. doesn't have to run massive boost and put out massive power, just has to be reliable, and have about 140 kw, so we're talking pretty low boost numbers, 7psi should be round about enough (depending on compression).

But, josh It'll cost ya through the a##. Sure he has access to alot of machines and cheaper parts etc through work, but I donno, it could get very expensive very quickly.

What about 'borrowing' a SC form work???

what you are saying is correct,
im not looking for MASSIVE power figures, as i told you last night just a nice figure like 140kw (at the fly) would be plenty for everyday driving in a 900kg Polo. 10PSI would be plenty until i wanted to go further...

what about the TDi manifold (someone said it would fit) and turbo to suit, all plumbed in (i can do piping.) with a chip to suit, fellas im not looking to build a record breaking engine here! maybe a cam (from the fellas at CROW) if im feeling friski

i can get metal cheap so stainless piping wouldnt be an issue, nor would an exhaust, or a turbo for that matter my Boss has 6 sitting at work and has offered one to me! and the (polyurethane?) joining bends really shouldnt be that expensive...

i think one of my bigger problems is finding a '97 2L engine otherwise this thing can never happen!

Borrowing a SC from work?! one of those SC would take up half my engine bay!

[Golf Houso]

The tdi manifold does fit with no issue, it would have ran a k03 in it's previous life. The downpipe is the main issue, as they differ in left and right hand drive cars, if you can fabricate one that would solve alot of issues!

So now all you need are appropriate injectors, a gasket spacer $115 US from kinetics motorsport to lower compression, and a chip, C2 motorsports also do a wide variety of chips including one for a non intercooled 8psi 8v aba set up putting out around 160hp (150kw at the crank), they're about 200-300 as well, and are the same as the ones described in an earlier post.

[peedman]

We dont have aba motors here so those chips wont work. You can always megasquirt it if u think ur capable with wiring.

[Golf Houso]

Whats the difference between the ABA and the 2e?

[peedman]

Well for one the intake is on the opposite side of the exhaust. I think its referred to as a tall block i.e. 159mm stroke (same as abf) but i could be wrong.

[Golf Houso]

Oh right, hmnn... still, I reckon if you spent enough time looking you would eventaully find one. When you mean tall block, is that the same motor as the new beetle and golf IV's have with the whitish manifold on the top of the cylinder head?

[gldgti]

Yes well, i've never seen the pistons from these motors - hence i have said so numerous times. 7psi is about average factory setting for alot of older turbo motors. 11-12psi is limit of skylines with ceramic turbine wheels, else they break... but if you say that 15psi is average, go for it.

If you would kindly notice: i did say that the motor will get stuffed if the tune is wrong... but excessive pressure/force on the pistons can also cause failure.... you shall be stressing engine components beyond their designed loads - but these loads would have a safety factor when designed/built, hence why you can alter the engine, and not have these components fail.

Size of turbo: larger turbos flow more air. More air means needs more fuel for same compression/boost compared to a smaller turbo - less flow, less fuel needed, same boost. Is what i was saying.

High compression can cause rings to go, as pressure can force it's way past, or can crack ringlands. You seem to have stated that the ringlands must be rather well spaced and it is not an issue for these motors... ok...

I would *NEVER* base a judgement on the fact that it's a german engineered motor. Not saying that the engineering is bad; but they made the motor to be a 2l n/a motor, not a 300hp turbo motor... and thus if you shove a turbo on and run 300hp... it was not designed for that, as such a design would cost more to build, and thus you are putting stress on engine components that was not meant to be there... so obviously the engine will not last as long, regardless of the tune...

1. do you own a VW?
2. large turbo's only flow more air if they can actually spool up... can you read a turbine efficiency chart?
3. why does my standard diesel mk3 plodder run 14psi standard boost.... and not have reliability issues?
4. higher compression doesnt put more load on the rings/ringlands - higher peak cylinder pressures does.
5. talking of connecting rods.... VAG make a lot of cars, and a lot of engines... infact, more engines than cars, since they sell 'em to a lot of other firms.... this means simplifying construction.... its why for years there were only 4 lenths of rods in all vag engines.... and 1 or 2 bearing sizes..... etc etc etc... the point is, anyone who REALLY knows about german engineering can tell you with confidence that your VW engine is nearly always over engineered to buggery - that you can drive it hard all its life and you wont kill it much faster than if you'd driven it like a granny - and that it makes more economic sense to make 10,000,000,000 diesel spec rods in one plant than build 40 different plants to make 40 different types of rods.

[gldgti]

Well for one the intake is on the opposite side of the exhaust. I think its referred to as a tall block i.e. 159mm stroke (same as abf) but i could be wrong.

sorry mate... 159mm stroke?

that would make the bore 31.6mm....

[peedman]

bah i meant that the rods were 159mm. the other size is 144mm

[Golf Houso]

1. do you own a VW?
2. large turbo's only flow more air if they can actually spool up... can you read a turbine efficiency chart?
3. why does my standard diesel mk3 plodder run 14psi standard boost.... and not have reliability issues?
4. higher compression doesnt put more load on the rings/ringlands - higher peak cylinder pressures does.
5. talking of connecting rods.... VAG make a lot of cars, and a lot of engines... infact, more engines than cars, since they sell 'em to a lot of other firms.... this means simplifying construction.... its why for years there were only 4 lenths of rods in all vag engines.... and 1 or 2 bearing sizes..... etc etc etc... the point is, anyone who REALLY knows about german engineering can tell you with confidence that your VW engine is nearly always over engineered to buggery - that you can drive it hard all its life and you wont kill it much faster than if you'd driven it like a granny - and that it makes more economic sense to make 10,000,000,000 diesel spec rods in one plant than build 40 different plants to make 40 different types of rods.

= VW is good at what they do, I believe is the correct translation

Does this mean there are any implications witg following turbo builds on ABA's then, besides the manifold of course?

[ausgolfer]

Another option would be an ex mini cooper super charger, they're small and would provide the boost you're after, they pop up rather cheap on ebay from time to time(have heard figures of $400 mentioned).

Would cut back on the need for a turbo manifold, down pipe etc, could pratically use your standard exhaust.

I haven't heard of any reliability issues with them, appart from premature belt breakage(not a relibaility issue fo the charger itself).

Cheaper again would be a toyota super charger off the 1GZE 2L 6cylinder.

[Valver.]

Another option would be an ex mini cooper super charger, they're small and would provide the boost you're after, they pop up rather cheap on ebay from time to time(have heard figures of $400 mentioned).

Would cut back on the need for a turbo manifold, down pipe etc, could pratically use your standard exhaust.

I haven't heard of any reliability issues with them, appart from premature belt breakage(not a relibaility issue fo the charger itself).

Cheaper again would be a toyota super charger off the 1GZE 2L 6cylinder.

Now we're talking

You can mount one in the place of the factory A/C unit if you run a serpentine belt setup rather than retaining v-belts.

Re engine management, you can't use a C2 chip as the computers are totally different. Having said that, a crossflow 8v computer will run a counterflow engine if you were to buy an ECU etc from the US... but the loom would need major work as it would be a LHD application.

I actually think it would be far cheaper to use Megasquirt and incorporate a MAP sensor, then you can use this alongside a TPS and get a very smooth engine.

Bear in mind with a turbo, there is very little point buying the main necessary bits then only aiming for 190hp - it's just not worth the expense IMO!!

10psi, Super 60 Garrett or Turbonetics, 9:1 compression, 2.5" exhaust, basic intercooler will have 230hp quite easily and not much lag

I'll reply to your PM tomorrow

[WABIT]

Yes well, i've never seen the pistons from these motors - hence i have said so numerous times. 7psi is about average factory setting for alot of older turbo motors. 11-12psi is limit of skylines with ceramic turbine wheels, else they break... but if you say that 15psi is average, go for it.

.

IM SORRY BUT MY FATHER WHO IS A PROF MECH AND A SKYLINES DOWNUNDER FORUM MEMBER AND ALL!!!! THE MEMBERS WHO OWN STANDARD R32 TURBOS BOOST THERE CARS FOR A MAXIMUM SAFE 15PSI

ANYTHING HIGHER WARES THE TURBO.... LESS OIL THAN AIR PRESSURE

WABIT


BTW sorry about capslock i got into the convo and didnt want to retype it half caps hehe

[Golf Houso]

Yeah well this guy in the US had a 24v Jetta GLI VR6, which had run about 80,000 kays running on 17psi as a daily driver, with just a head gasket spacer and front mount with no significant problems during that time. The car now has well over 220,000 on the dial that is a 490hp car as well

The turbo is more likely to go than the engine. I'm pretty sure the Falcon XR6T doesn't have any fancy engine components and those things can run on massive boost without crapping out for yonks!

[GoLfMan]

Yeah well this guy in the US had a 24v Jetta GLI VR6, which had run about 80,000 kays running on 17psi as a daily driver, with just a head gasket spacer and front mount with no significant problems during that time. The car now has well over 220,000 on the dial that is a 490hp car as well

The turbo is more likely to go than the engine. I'm pretty sure the Falcon XR6T doesn't have any fancy engine components and those things can run on massive boost without crapping out for yonks!

good point!
but the XR6T does have low comp pistons i think