building a 2L 8v for turbo?

[peedman]

Those US kits arent compatable with our motors since they only got the ABA motor whereas we have the 2E. Also there have been concerns about the exhaust manifold and the clearance from the steering rack, oh and dont forget they have obd1 and 2 whereas we have none of that stuff.

Soon ive got a 2l 8v motor out of my mk3 inc full loom waiting to be taken out of my car but it could be a while before its fully out.

[GoLfMan]

Bloody hell, shouldof stuck with stock wheels and suspension and got a turbo kit for my car...

yup you should have! the ULTIMATE sleeper

[GoLfMan]

Soon ive got a 2l 8v motor out of my mk3 inc full loom waiting to be taken out of my car but it could be a while before its fully out.

cant put your motor in mate! '97 Polo, you have a '94 Golf, i need an engine that is AT LEAST a '97 otherwise i cant get it registered...

[Valver.]

JESUS 12hrs on VWW and there's another thread full of misinformation

4psi on a stock motor?! Try 15 at least It is down to the tune far and above anything else.

$5000 for a 20vt? Try $15,000+ once you have a chassis within cooee of taking the power daily and have sorted all the many things out.

There are no issues with steering rack clearance using a US spec turbo kit, it is the downpipe that may cause problems. The turbo also tends to sit close to the clutch and throttle cables, but this is easy to get around.

Buying a kit is a bad idea full stop. The best and cheapest way is to max and match parts.

Let's see where $2000 would get you...

Turbo: $800-$1500
Engine management: $2400
Professional wire-in and tune: $2000
Exhaust manifold: $500
Oil lines: $200
Head studs: $150
Multi-layer De-comp setup: $200
Clutch and flywheel machine: $800
Breather setup: $200
Exhaust: $1200 for something basic
Injectors: $400
Fuel setup: $500+
Engine mounts: $200
Basic replacement parts (gaskets, WP etc): $600
Misc: at least another $800

And that is doing it yourself!!!

[Valver.]

I didnt say 5k would be enough for a 20V turbo but if u list up the prices of converting the 8v assuming u cant weld and have to source most of the parts, the cost of building up the motor like forgies, piping, injectors, head rebuild, standalone, etc etc it is cheaper to go 20V. THEN u add ontop brakes, engineering, service items, rego.

That is very true. You could build a 'ghetto' 8vT for less than a 20vT, but to do it properly ain't cheap

It would be $5-6000ish with 2nd hand parts and management at a guess. 2 or 3 times that for a bling engine!

[D3bb4]

4psi on a stock motor?! Try 15 at least It is down to the tune far and above anything else.

It's not about the tune at all; it's about the load on the pistons/rings/ringlands. You pressurise the cylinders through use of boost, and not many stock turbo motors can handle 15psi boost for long, so i really don't think a stock n/a motor can. Tune has to do with if the motor detonates and dies through pinging. If you run alot of pressure, it's going to be your rings and/or ringlands that go prematurely. 4psi is regarded as safe boost for a stock n/a motor; anything else is technical/varies depending upon decompressing the motor and size of the turbo.

As mentioned before; i'm not familiar with the specs of these motors, nor what they can handle, but 15psi through an internally stock n/a motor - will not last long.

You should also add an intercooler to your list; and piping. Custom stainless steel piping through a shop will likely set you back about $750 last i checked.

[peedman]

There are plenty of guys in the US that crank 12-15psi on stock internals with only a headgasket spacer, the stock rods are known to last up to 300hp. How long do they last at 1 bar? Well that depends on how u drive it

[D3bb4]

As said; i'm not familiar with these motors.

1 pound or 1 bar? 1 bar = ~14.7psi

Sounds over-engineered if stock 2l rods can handle 300hp... If you were going for those figures, i wouldn't be trusting stock internals.

[Golf Houso]

I've seen reflashed turbo 8v chips for 200 bucks online. The mk3 tdi manifold fits it as well, 2 grand for a backyard job running around 6-8psi, more like 2500 but anyways, the point is it can be done on the cheap. I doubt its the best way to go around it though... I'd contemplate doing it If I actually had any desire to keep my car. Its definately worth the minimal amount of risk involved...

I'll just turbocharge my next car

24v VR6 internals are rated at 450awhp, why, I have no idea... Head spacer should work well enough, reducing compression ratio to run 12-18 psi too!

450hp bora... hmnnn

[ausgolfer]

It's not about the tune at all; it's about the load on the pistons/rings/ringlands. You pressurise the cylinders through use of boost, and not many stock turbo motors can handle 15psi boost for long, so i really don't think a stock n/a motor can. Tune has to do with if the motor detonates and dies through pinging. If you run alot of pressure, it's going to be your rings and/or ringlands that go prematurely. 4psi is regarded as safe boost for a stock n/a motor; anything else is technical/varies depending upon decompressing the motor and size of the turbo.

As mentioned before; i'm not familiar with the specs of these motors, nor what they can handle, but 15psi through an internally stock n/a motor - will not last long.

Valver is correct, and you are wrong, if it is tuned poorly it will ping and detonate causing weakness and premature fatigue in the ringland area! Ringlands will not likely fail on bulky/beefy stock vw pistons(unless poorly tuned).

15psi is not a high amount of boost for a stock turbo petrol motor I would say it's roughly average.


I have seen a stock 1.8 20vt destroyed buy a standard turbo and a poor tune.

Also the size of the turbo has little to do with the longevity of the motor, simply because a larger turbo can deliver more boost does not mean it is set up to do so.

As for over engineering yes thats "they are" true most things are, especially German machines, bridges, buildings, pressure vessels, planes, trains and automobiles, etc. They don't build motors to pop if you fit a performance air filter.

I have read of an engine(through vortex) similar to the one in question here that was making 500bhp on stock internals. I am unaware of the longevity.

[D3bb4]

Yes well, i've never seen the pistons from these motors - hence i have said so numerous times. 7psi is about average factory setting for alot of older turbo motors. 11-12psi is limit of skylines with ceramic turbine wheels, else they break... but if you say that 15psi is average, go for it.

If you would kindly notice: i did say that the motor will get stuffed if the tune is wrong... but excessive pressure/force on the pistons can also cause failure.... you shall be stressing engine components beyond their designed loads - but these loads would have a safety factor when designed/built, hence why you can alter the engine, and not have these components fail.

Size of turbo: larger turbos flow more air. More air means needs more fuel for same compression/boost compared to a smaller turbo - less flow, less fuel needed, same boost. Is what i was saying.

High compression can cause rings to go, as pressure can force it's way past, or can crack ringlands. You seem to have stated that the ringlands must be rather well spaced and it is not an issue for these motors... ok...

I would *NEVER* base a judgement on the fact that it's a german engineered motor. Not saying that the engineering is bad; but they made the motor to be a 2l n/a motor, not a 300hp turbo motor... and thus if you shove a turbo on and run 300hp... it was not designed for that, as such a design would cost more to build, and thus you are putting stress on engine components that was not meant to be there... so obviously the engine will not last as long, regardless of the tune...

[Valver.]

It's not about the tune at all; it's about the load on the pistons/rings/ringlands. You pressurise the cylinders through use of boost, and not many stock turbo motors can handle 15psi boost for long, so i really don't think a stock n/a motor can. Tune has to do with if the motor detonates and dies through pinging. If you run alot of pressure, it's going to be your rings and/or ringlands that go prematurely. 4psi is regarded as safe boost for a stock n/a motor; anything else is technical/varies depending upon decompressing the motor and size of the turbo.

As mentioned before; i'm not familiar with the specs of these motors, nor what they can handle, but 15psi through an internally stock n/a motor - will not last long.

You should also add an intercooler to your list; and piping. Custom stainless steel piping through a shop will likely set you back about $750 last i checked.

The weak point is the conrods on these engines; the rings are not an issue at all. I have done a couple lof years research into all of this prior to building my own setup. There are are numerous setups sold by some of the best engineering firms in Germany and all they use is a decompression gasket. It is much the same with VR6 turbo's well beyond 400hp.

Just look at some of compression ratios of the new turbo engines even from VAG itself.

It is swings and roundabouts anyway: one either runs higher boost and less compression, or less boost and more compression. The ultimate cylinder pressure is much the same in the end anyway.

You should also consider the millions of aftermarket turbocharged Hondas with 11:1 and above compression ratios. They are widely regarded as some of best engines to turbo ever built and you won't find many people having problems with excessive blow-by.

An intercooler setup can be had for a couple of hundred dollars nowadays; hence my $800+ of misc. parts

[Valver.]

I would *NEVER* base a judgement on the fact that it's a german engineered motor. Not saying that the engineering is bad; but they made the motor to be a 2l n/a motor, not a 300hp turbo motor... and thus if you shove a turbo on and run 300hp... it was not designed for that, as such a design would cost more to build, and thus you are putting stress on engine components that was not meant to be there... so obviously the engine will not last as long, regardless of the tune...

In theory, you're right. Ausgolfer isn't basing that comment on theory, though. There are so many of these engines that have been turbocharged without a single problem and that is proven fact. I hate theory as everyone seems to apply it to everything

You've ruined this thread anyway: you have said yourself you don't know anything about these engines so why are you giving advice? No offense intended but it doesn't make much sense, does it?

By the way, that monster 16vT made 550BHP at the wheels on stockies... but then the block tore in half - LOL

[Jarred]

As far as I know, ( I spoke to the bugger last nite) Josh just wants a turbo'd 2L. doesn't have to run massive boost and put out massive power, just has to be reliable, and have about 140 kw, so we're talking pretty low boost numbers, 7psi should be round about enough (depending on compression).

But, josh It'll cost ya through the a##. Sure he has access to alot of machines and cheaper parts etc through work, but I donno, it could get very expensive very quickly.

What about 'borrowing' a SC form work???

[Golf Houso]

If he can sort out the engine management... everything else will be alot less difficult. I suggest he attack the most difficult problem, and then worry about everything else. Everything else but the ECU can be retrofitted... He should start there, actually I'll start there!

http://www.bahnbrenner.com/vw_audi/products/1968/MK3_2_0L_ABA_16v_OBD2_Turbo_Eprom

Just remove the chip on the board, weld the generic chip housing onto the board and plug in the new chip! If you know an engineer or auto electrician they'll take about 20 minutes to fit it. All these automotive chips are actually just generic programmable chips which can be reflashed, properties altered, copied and from which duplicates can be made. The powerchips guy on Ebay can make you a chip with any specifications, psi, fuel pressure, rpm limiter, speed limiter... anything really, just a matter of you finding the specifications you want.

I'm definately going back to the mk3 8v in a few years...