Anyone had problems after a remap?

[h100vw]

If it is a big end failure (conrod looks scored the way I see it ) I can't see realistically how a simple tune could cause it not without other things failing anyway. The question is though what has made this happen. Happy to be proved wrong of course
Petrol is a different story but even then the ECU would hopefully be able to protect itself

Mark, check that rod again. There's no bearing in it. There's no metal near the bolt hole.

Gavin

[parso_rex]

hmm yes interesting oh well scrap that.

Edit: maybe its gone to bearing heaven with that amount of crap in the sump

[h100vw]

hmm yes interesting oh well scrap that.

Edit: maybe its gone to bearing heaven with that amount of crap in the sump

Could be. My initial thought was oil pressure when I saw the rod but changed that when I looked closer. There is a bearing in the top picture but its too out of focus to get anything from.

Looking again, is the a lump missing from that piston on the far side? The shape of it looks a bit too regular to be damage?

Gavin

[Transporter]

Could be. My initial thought was oil pressure when I saw the rod but changed that when I looked closer. There is a bearing in the top picture but its too out of focus to get anything from.

Looking again, is the a lump missing from that piston on the far side? The shape of it looks a bit too regular to be damage?

Gavin

Yes, that piston doesn't look right. I'd like to see the top of it, and the condition of the rings as well.

[Naresh]

Guys I am going back to VW later today so will take more pictures of what I can see. I couldn't see the engine top cover or the other pistons anyway. The block was also missing and from the other picture I've uploaded now you can see straight through the bottom of the car to the workshop ceiling so the block must have been put aside somewhere.

As for my situation, it's not great and my emotions are running from sadness to anger. Sadness for the state of my car and anger towards the tuner and VW for not accepting any kind of manufacturing defect. How I could prove that though isn't clear or probaby not possible!

[tigger73]

Not sure if you have this yet, however so you can move forward I would look to get a written report from the VW workshop as to their assessment of your engine and the mode of failure plus quote for repair / rectification.

I would ask them to document/justify how the failure is related to the engine tune and whether this repair is to be covered under warranty or otherwise.

Just because you've had a tune doesn't automatically mean your warranty is void. VW still has to justify how the tune would have done the damage.

Then you can take this to your tuner and give the tuner the opportunity to respond.

[Transporter]

...and, should you pay for the repairs, you should get back all the faulty components. Also, it's still probably not too late to hire the independent company to investigate that failure. It could save you heaps, especially if neither the VW or the tuner are willing to pay for the repairs.

[Naresh]

Thanks for the continuing support guys. I think that even if I fail to win any costs back from this I hope that it helps others to be more careful in who they go to for a remap and to consider all the possible dangers. It will also prevent people here in the UK from going to the same tuner again, if in fact, he is at fault which I believe to be. I have chosen not to name him due to legal reasons for the time being.

That aside, I will find out from VW if they can provide me with a list of costs to date for what they have carried out but the estimate for the complete job is £5,500 and a good friend has told me that the average costs for this kind of job range from £4,500 - £5,500. I would have to factor in the additional cost of transporting the car in it's current state to an independent specialist then pay them their cost to rectify the work which may well be using new parts again or somehow repairing the current ones. Part of me wants it to remain at VW though as I feel they could still be at fault mechanically and wanting to wash their hands of any warranty work.

Taking back the fault parts would be useful in any case but I'm not sure how heavy all those parts would be and how I would transport back to my home.

I have asked VW to write me a report detailing that the tune was to blame which they have agreed in a conversation to do so.

So far the tuner has only responded to my email that he offer no warranty on modified vehicles and has made no comment to the repair costs I have and the damage caused to the parts, or indeed that VW and blaming his map. I am awaiting legal advice before I reply back to him but I have a feeling he has probably been through this scenario before and will try his utmost to deflect any blame away from his tuning skills!

[VW Convert]

Thanks for the continuing support guys. I think that even if I fail to win any costs back from this I hope that it helps others to be more careful in who they go to for a remap and to consider all the possible dangers. It will also prevent people here in the UK from going to the same tuner again, if in fact, he is at fault which I believe to be. I have chosen not to name him due to legal reasons for the time being.

All of this presumes the tune is at fault which in fact may not be the case.

I have asked VW to write me a report detailing that the tune was to blame which they have agreed in a conversation to do so.

I feel this approach is flawed, from what you have written so far, no information has been given that details the chronology of the failure and you are asking for a report saying that VW were not at fault rather than a report on the cause of the failure. If this were my car, I would be challenging VW to provide a detailed failure analysis report, I can assure you that major manufacturers like VW and their component suppliers have the capability (and IMO) a reponsibility to do so if they are rejecting a warranty claim and it is very much in their interests to do so.

I have worked for decades in the automotive parts industry for many years dealing with suppliers such as Kolbenschmidt, Mahle, Sachs, Mann & Hummel, Reinz, Elring (OE suppliers to VW and most Euro manufacturers) and numerous others and I've seen their capabilities in action. They have the technology to analyse failed components using a raft of different processes including X Ray and a myriad of metallurgical test processes too lengthy to mention and determine the chronology of the failure and which component(s) failed and most importantly why.

I'm not aware of your consumer laws but in Australia, a dealer or the manufacturer would need to present very strong evidence to support their argument when rejecting a claim such as this.

As I wrote above, I don't know much about UK consumer laws but in regards to the tuner, if VW were to present their evidence that indicated the tune caused the failure, it would seem incredible that there be no recourse for faulty product.

Hope you are able to get a resolution to this problem.


My 2c

Cheers


George

[tigger73]

I don't think any reputable tuner would want their name associated with a catastrophic engine failure. So it surprises me that the tuner is so reluctant to offer any assistance at all. Maybe he thinks by refusing responsibility that he's not accepting any liability. Though sounds like he was more than happy to take your money.

I'd actually offer him the opportunity to have the engine independently assessed if he doesn't agree with the VW report.

Also as Transporter suggested if it's not too late to get oil and fuel tests completed in case wrong oils have been put in during service (wouldn't be the first time) and or out of spec/mixed fuel is the cause.

At this stage I'd be looking to pin the failure on anyone other than yourself so a few $ in tests could be a very worthwhile investment.

[Transporter]

Of course we don't see the engine, we won't be able to hear it how it was running just after the tune, but it just doesn't add up. The engine failed too soon after the tune and without the warning (as long as the driver was a bit observant). The VW dealer that is not willing to find the truth cause why the engine failed, just being happy that they can blame the failure on something else.

How ever the title of the thread is "Anyone had problems after a remap?", and so far no one came forward that he would have the failure of the TDI engine similar to this one and in such a short time.

If it was me, I would be asap collecting from the dealer the failed components, getting all other evidence to build the case, and the dealer would be the first one to know it, should I have no choice but to leave my car in their mercy.

[Naresh]

Of course we don't see the engine, we won't be able to hear it how it was running just after the tune

Hi Transporter I did record a video showing the engine noise on the day I first discovered it. This was day 5 after the remap and only 70 miles of driving (have now confirmed this as the total distance travelled). Since the map I only did one "spirited" drive with the tuner to check the difference in power/torque but after that it was all conservative driving as I use the vehicle on school runs. No warning lights every appeared on my dash - that's what surprised me. But I understand that if a tuner changes the limiting parameters on the ECU then no warning lights would have appeared? Is that correct? If so that could be confirmed by a VCDS scan surely to check the error log files.

Have also just got back from VW after taking some more pictures. I will up load them later.

[youtube]zmBQS3JRxGc[/youtube]

[Naresh]

Ok I have now uploaded the pictures taken earlier. I now realise the tiny brass fragments shown earlier were sitting in the engine sump cover. Another mechanic who was there told me it's likely they came from inside the piston head where it meets the con rod - is that possible? Could that be a mechanical defect? As for oils - the car was serviced by this same dealer in December 2012 and 1,400 miles ago. Before taking the car into them I checked the oil level and it was fine.

Anyway, here are the pics............

[Transporter]

How is the condition of the other 3 con rods bearings? If they're in perfect condition, then ask the dealer how he can explain that the only one cylinder failed? The tune affects all cylinders equally and you should see the similar signs of excessive wear on other 3 (because it happened so quickly). If not then I think that the lubrication failed in that engine.
How was the oil filter?
Was the coolant level always OK or were there some top ups needed to keep the level up?

It would be an interesting experiment after repairing that engine to leave the tune in there and observe. And, if everything would be OK after 15,000km get the oil sample tested and go back to that dealer for the refund if you'd pay for the repair.

How many oil changes did you have in total?
How long are your usual trips? (driving under severe driving conditions?)

[parso_rex]

We need more pics, I'm with transporter plus I still find it really hard to see how a tune with stock hardware could kill the bottom end in a diesel leaving everything else unscathed. Turbo yes I can believe that but the bottom end I can't see how you could kill bearings in such a short distance for that matter at all.
I might ask some of my counterparts OS tonight and see if there is some logic in it all.