Tuning with Warranty Protection

[Finance_Analyst]

This isn't sounding too good . Bugger

Given how many tunes there are out there and all, I think a lot of dealers turn a blind eye to it or have no idea what is really going on.

[cstb_87]

VW Camberwell seem like nobs so I'm not sure how much I can get away with.

[Finance_Analyst]

VW Camberwell seem like nobs so I'm not sure how much I can get away with.

nobs because they know what they are doing, or because they are totally clueless?

[Candyman]

Dealers turn a blind eye until something goes wrong

Even then, unless it is a massive issue or you don't have a good relationship with them, most will still help out

[cstb_87]

Nobs as in it is always about money with them.

I'll look into APR and see what they produce with the stage 2.

Cheers guys

[Guy_H]

Detect-ability?

Dealership level, 3 methods on a tuned car:

1: Drive test, measure requested & actual boost & compare to stock figures, quick & easy, but never seen it done.

There are no boost or torque "recorders" that I have seen (apart from those that throw a fault code), so there are no tell tale signs that a dealer tech that can check.

2: Flash Counter in ECU. I believe this is a common test & takes seconds to check at the dealership level.

Check yours here:

.

Ross-Tech: VCDS Tour: Advanced ID

Now a lot of tuners can read & rewrite this to its previous value or to zero it. I do not know if there is a recorded database of what it should be or was, but I know this has been investigated at dealership level. Some hand held programming devices increment the counter each time they flash.

Maybe some people with hand held flashing devices can check?

3: Fault codes remaining after flash programming:

When flashing an ECU in the car, it technically "disconnects" from the other modules in the car. The other main modules then throw fault codes because they are missing the ECU from the CAN BUS loop. I have not seen a hand held programming device to date that can clear codes from all these other modules. You can of course purchase a VAGCOM and do it yourself. These codes remain even though the dash warning lights might go out on a cycle of the ignition.

Maybe its something some forum members can check also who have VAG COM.

To Date (December 2011 - Australian VW Dealers) there is no online method of determining if an ECU is modified in a car. This may change & certainly we will hear about it pretty quickly.

Of course, if the vehicle has a modified map, the checksum's & binary will be different to stock.

If you have your ECU flashed back to stock by your APR dealer, then its identical to stock. Binary, checksums, everything.

[Candyman]

Wasn't it always said that it was APRs version of stock, not true stock

Also, a fair amount of discussion on the other VW forum that log files are held on the ECU that actually securely stores data on any reflashes applied.

VW are the only ones that truly know and they aren't saying.

If **** happens no tune is undetectable so insurance is the wise choice

[Finance_Analyst]

Thanks Guy - this is EXACTLY the reason why I paid a bit more to get the APR tune as it is undetectable.

PS. Enjoying the APR T shirt- had quite a few comments already

[Guy_H]

Wasn't it always said that it was APRs version of stock, not true stock

Also, a fair amount of discussion on the other VW forum that log files are held on the ECU that actually securely stores data on any reflashes applied.

VW are the only ones that truly know and they aren't saying.

If **** happens no tune is undetectable so insurance is the wise choice

I think the only people that say APR's stock is not true stock - are APR's competitors. Those who have the ability to have multiple programs don't say this (GIAC / REVO) as they do a similar thing to what APR does to facilitate switching between maps.

Once again, byte by byte, the tune can be found out (not at dealership level), but switch it back to stock & lock it with security & you are very safe.

[AAP01]

I heard from the dealer I bought my car from (He owns a modified GTI). The only way to check if your car has been tuned is to plug your car into a computer which is viewed back to VW Germany. They are the only ones that can tell if your car has been tuned by APR. This only happens if VW Australia has no clue what has gone wrong with your car and needs Germany's help. He also told me that's rare. Not sure how true it is but he is the one that put me onto APR and I believe he has Stage 2 and races his.

[Finance_Analyst]

APR I believe is the only tuner which can reset the counter to zero without any issue - all the others do not have the ability to completely override it. That is why you pay more for it as it has more advanced IP in it. Happy to be corrected though....

[Ideo]

APR I believe is the only tuner which can reset the counter to zero without any issue - all the others do not have the ability to completely override it. That is why you pay more for it as it has more advanced IP in it. Happy to be corrected though....

Lol fanboys lol.

[gavs]

I think this is a thread that might need cleaning up from all the gushing....

Seriously guys, if you want to know about tuning ramifications, Speak to your dealership. Don't come here because all you will get is 25 pages of why one tune is better than another, why his car's tune is better because he got a 14.68 qtr mile vs her car's tune that got a 14.70.

Most dealerships are reasonable and will talk through things with you, hard for them to refuse warranty a dodgy rear wheel bearing because you have an ecu tune.

In regards to the tuners warranty, there is only 1 tuner that offers a warranty on their tune and that is Viezu. If your car has a failure because of the tune, they will fix it. They are the ONLY company that offers this protection at this point.

[Greg Roles]

To be fair Oettinger also has protection with a 2 year warranty on their tunes, hence why they are often what the dealers may promote at point of sale, because prior to Viezu, that was basically the only option for protection. Lets keep it factual!

[The_Hawk]

I think that any dealer that partnered with a tuning company and had a clear list of what was and what wasn't covered after a tune would be onto a winner with customers, although maybe not with VW which is probably why we haven't seen anything much come out. It would be great to talk to your dealer prior to doing anything, but from the conversations I have had over the years no one is willing to give a definitive answer. Again, I think any dealer who could do that might pick up lots of extra servicing work.

The real story of tuning and warranty is long and very grey. To the best of my knowledge after a tune:

No your warranty is not completely void.
So, YES, If a window switch breaks it's still covered.
Basically everything outside the driveline should still be fine without question.

As for the driveline, I would like to think that the gearbox and drive shafts etc would still be covered if you didn't exceed certain thresholds. IE if you tune a 118TSI up to just below GTI spec power that since you didn't exceed the power that VW themselves push through that same model gearbox you would have a good argument that you were still within spec.

The engine itself... well is it a fault in the engine or something that you pushed too hard?

While it has been said many times that it's up to THEM to prove that YOU broke the car otherwise it's covered... well while that might be technically true, they are the one's holding all the cards and can simply say no and put the onus back on you to argue that it wasn't your fault. There are many factors in this one much of which will come down to the attitudes of all those involved and how the issue is approached. Of course there will be easy touch people out there as well as bastards. You catch more flies with honey and all that.

Hiding a tune in the hope to get warranty support is always going to be questionable. Can you? Can't you? Should you? Shouldn't you? Both technical can moral questions. I understand and agree that not pointing out that there is a tune may avoid disagreements with the dealership and it may very well be that they simply fix whatever is wrong without question. Of course the new intake, down pipe, exhaust and big arse intercooler may however just give them an inkling and who could be bothered replacing all the gear every time anyway?

Insured tunes are an interesting concept. From what I hear, both companies claim no or very few claims. ever. In short they are saying it's piece of mind for those that want it, but reassure you that it's not likely to be needed. I don't personally know of anyone who has tried to claim one way or the other.


Bottom line, it's always going to be a risk, you are pushing your vehicle beyond what it is "certified" to do, it's probably well be well within it's capabilities the tuning companies spend LOTS of time and money ensuring these things are as good/reliable as they can be. Do you trust their R&D? Are you willing to take the risk that you break something and it's not covered by warranty? It's a personal question. Will I? Probably. Will you?