cutting springs

[DVR68U]

yeah loon then pass on the no. to me
cheers boys

[gotrice]

I have a set of lowered springs that you could have if your interested. I got rid of them coz the ride was a bit too harsh (Yeah I am old!!!) but if you wat them let me know.

eggers6@gmail.com

[mollins]

I know everyone has different opinions on this but i just thought i'd just speak from my experience...

Ive cut springs on mk1s many times and never had any issues... the main problem is that the standard springs in the mk1s are so soft, that when cut, they bottom out a lot more. I cut a coil and a half off the front and back of a 2dr earlier this year and found great improvements in handling due to lower center of gravity and thus a reduction in roll through tight bends.

If you do decide to give them the chop, start small, half a coil at a time, then if you think you want to take off more, just drive on them for a week or so as they will take a bit to settle. Also, make sure that you dont go too low or you'll mess up your suspension geometry. The wishbones should sit close to horizontal with the car on the ground (also watch out for sump bumps!).

(i know this is also a topic of much debate, but i use a grinder, hacksaws will hardly scratch a spring and take way too long, and the heat in the spring would only approach eutectoid temp right at the grind, which is what you might expect. the heat concentration will decrease by the quadruple of the distance away from the cut (roughly) so any heat from the grinding will not effect the rest of the spring at all. )

As someone mentioned before, the preload stops the spring from coming away from the spring cups, and if the springs are cut enough, they will do this, but i have never cut one enough to allow it to actually fall out sideways when the car is jacked up or in the air.... and it was tested!.. my cousin jumped the 2dr over a cattle grid (on a private road of course) and the springs were fine! (although he did land sump first on a rock, and needed a new sump and oil pickup!)

thats what i think anyway

mike

(please note, all this only applys to mk1s, i know nothing about the standard spring rates or suspension geometry of the mk2s and 3s, and they are also much heavier!)

[gldgti]

i can vouch for everything mollins says.

also, i have to say that cutting springs as a rule is not a great idea. BUT with all due respect, its a worthy way to make good a suspension in certain circumstances.

those fo you who drive mk2's, 3's and anything else, sure, by some new springs. your cars are too fat and heavy to take a standard rate spring chop. but adjusting the height of an already lowered car with hard springs is no real problem, provided you use some commonsense.

likewise, im not at all surprised that a vl common-door had bad spring experiences. (commodores typically have small suspension travel anyway)

[Oneofthegreats]

Manafacturers spend millions of dollar's in testing & development to get the spring, dampening, suspension geometry & all the other variables right!
This also includes the aftermarket industry too!

I don't recommend chopped springs at all as it stuff's up the variable spring rate's & the suspension doesn't/can't do the job it was designed for & feels crap. I know as I have seen it more times than Elvis has had hits & I have them in my own car, which If I could go back, I wouldn't have chopped them.
Originally I had a full set of Jamex springs & dampers. Awesome setup!(No coilovers back then).
The front dampers had a shorter body size of about 1.5-2" shorter than the original's which still gave the total travel but was lower because of the body height. Then I drove through a cutout in the road during the westgate roadworks with nowhere to go( a 3-4" drop to gravel then back up 3-4". Road work pricks!) & blew the valving out.
I then installed the original damper body's & installed Koni adjustable insert's as that's all I could afford at the time, but it sat up an extra 1.5-2" at the front & looked stupid. So I took to the springs to rectify the height & in the process I only have approx 1-1.5" inch of travel & I had to wire tie the springs to the spring seat so they wouldn't drop out.
Over big bump's it still smashes & bottom's out & feels bouncy. When other people drive they say "this thing stick's like s%#t to a blanket" but it couldn't be further from the truth. It feels crap.
If you don't need to or have to, Dont do it!

I don't know how you can say the MK2 is fat & heavy it is only approx 50-100kg heavier. A full tank of fuel's weight. Jee, that's a whale.
I weighed my MK1 with half a tank of fuel with my in it & it came up 1000kg on a public weigh bridge & my mum's MK2 with half a tank & it came up 30kg more!

[Golfwise]

Spring rates shockers etc is a real science and some you mk1 boys know better than the experts then.Well you should send your resumes to a manufacturer you're bound to be wanted.
Mk1s have 4 imches of front suspension travel and you want to cut the springs to lower them , remove 2 inches and you are left with only 2 inches of travel.Its easy to work out don't do it.
Also don't forget most original springs are now 30 years old so well past their use by date.

[dvw16v]

LOON i looked through my fone and cant find his number must of been in my old fone that i lost he is in powdrill rd prestons i only found him cause my friend had a factory next door and he used to come out when we were having fun in our cars but ill do a ring round and get the number off someone as i might need it myself one day and as for my golf it still got no dash lights workin but hopefully get some globes and fit them soon but first got to get to prob of oil pressure warning light going off checked oil pressure changed the high pressure sensor and nothing all i can think of is the earth travelling back to the dash from the sender is split somewhere anyway ill should get the number for the spring man

[GoLfMan]

Spring rates shockers etc is a real science and some you mk1 boys know better than the experts then.Well you should send your resumes to a manufacturer you're bound to be wanted.
Mk1s have 4 imches of front suspension travel and you want to cut the springs to lower them , remove 2 inches and you are left with only 2 inches of travel.Its easy to work out don't do it.
Also don't forget most original springs are now 30 years old so well past their use by date.

you can work out the spring rate by the equation F=-kx can you not? its all physics really

also a better bet for lowering your springs is heating and compressing them so they set lower instead of cutting coils off...

[mollins]

i apologise if i came across as an keyboard-expert, as i said, i was speaking from my experience only.. i understand the complexity of the dynamics of spring-damper systems (ive spent several semesters studying them), and in no way am i trying to outdo or improve the original engineering! .. i meerly believe that a quick chop is a cheap mod to change the suspension of the car.. deciding whether the change is better or worse is totally upto the car owner...

i would have most definitely installed a well engineered aftermarket suspension setup and i fully recommend it to all rich car owners, but i spend all my money paying for my engineering degree, trying to get my resume up to spec so that one day i may be able to be an expert too..

mike

[syncro]

It is actually illegal to cut springs.

[gldgti]

thats right, f=kx.... but unless you can get a decent load on it you might only measure the lower rate coils.

im not sure how many of you know that almost all springs on modern (yes, thats mk1's too) cars are progressive rate. it is usual to distinguish the different parts of the spring by the distance between the consecutive coils.

usually, the lower rate part, which deflects over the small undulations in the road, small stones and surface changes are at the top of the spring and are close together.

the high rate part which works when cornering hard and when you go over large bumps, constitutes the reast of the spring.

some springs like the rear mk1 standards have progressive rate coils at both ends of the spring.

cutting off the progressive rate coils will decrease your ride hight and you'll lose some comfort. however it wont significantly impact on the way your car responds to lateral loads or large bumps, as the overal spring constant will be close to the original rate.

having said this, you still lose travel which is a bad thing. also, you make everything lower (the idea i guess) which makes your car vulnerable.



the above is a justification of the process of altering springs to suit your needs. it is not advice on what to do. it is not best practice. it is not always the best idea.

it does have merit, and is not.....repeat NOT - unsubstantiated claim making and heresay.

some users would do well to note that there are people on this forum which spend every spare hour tinkering and modding their golfs with zero funds. we have a little time, elbow grease and brains, and we do attempt to use these to our fullest abilities.

if you really want to tell me that cutting springs is a stupid idea, come to newcastle and have a drive in my car... i'm sure there are many who will advise you that my slow putting little diesel will embarrass a lot of golfs on any roundabout.

[gtimk5]

I raised the strut tower tops in my competition car by 40 m/m. That way I lowered the car and still retained the travel. Something else to think about...

[MK2 GTI]

The old MK1 i had also had that done to it, good idea.

[gtimk5]

If that was Valvers brothers car then that was another that I did that way.
Note that I had to modify the rh inner guard section as I found in hard competition cornering the driveshaft fouled on the body.The strut tower mod wasn't that hard to do . Cheers, Andrew

[Golf Loon]

This is a good thread guys. Personally I`m a chopper, but if I had limitless $$s Id buy fully adjustables.

If cutting, dont go crazy and make sure they cant slip out of the seat. Who cares if it bottoms out, just makes it like a go cart.

And yes Mk2s are only a wee bit heavier than a Mk1.

I like the increasing the tower at the front of the car and I have a trick rear beam that allows a similar trick at the back. The shock sits an inch lower, but still has travel.