Tyre Options

[Martin]

It is exceptionally unlikely that they pulled the steering column out of the spline on the rack
The steering arms will be in slightly different positions

[k_rider]

Thanks Martin, that makes sense.

[brad]

The toe will be correct only when the wheels are straight
But as the toe has been set with the steering offset,
the left and right track rods are at different positions
When you turn the steering each wheel will go through a slightly different angle (due to geometry) on each side

Over the years a number of my friends have encountered this and not had a big problem - but I'm picky about it

The toe can be correct & the steering wheel offset... or the toe may be out.

To the OP - incorrect front toe doesn't generally cause a pull / drift unless it's horrendously wrong. Suggest you take it back & get it checked & tweaked. Also ask for a print out of all the current settings & post them here. Front camber, caster & toe. Rear camber, toe & thrust line.

I wouldn't say the tech has stuffed up - just needs to tweak it slightly as sometimes a slightly off steering wheel isn't noticeable on a test drive.

No...No...No...... the steering wheel could be upside down and the toe adjustments still correct. The steering wheel is not fixed to the column and can be removed and set to any angle. (and quite often is after a alignment)

Agree.
It's rare for the tech to pull the steering wheel off these days because of the airbag & the explosive / financial risks associated with removal of that component to get access to the nut.

It's much easier to get underneath & crack the 2x locknuts on the tie rod ends & screw one in & one out an equal amount. You don't even have to put the heads on if the customer isn't watching - just double check with a tape measure.

[K4neX]

Hi all, just wondering if anyone has changed their tyres (17") on a 2014 Ambition Plus wagon? I would like to know if there is any benefit (mainly road noise) to swap out the stock tyres to something like Michelin PS3? Or is there any other recommendation?

Edit: What tyres does the Ambition Plus Wagon come with? How do the new tyres that you put on compare to the stock tyres? And would it be cheaper to get the dealer to change them before delivery or get them done after? Cheers!

[brad]

Hi all, just wondering if anyone has changed their tyres (17") on a 2014 Ambition Plus wagon? I would like to know if there is any benefit (mainly road noise) to swap out the stock tyres to something like Michelin PS3? Or is there any other recommendation?

Edit: What tyres does the Ambition Plus Wagon come with? How do the new tyres that you put on compare to the stock tyres? And would it be cheaper to get the dealer to change them before delivery or get them done after? Cheers!

If you don't know what it comes with then why would you be considering a change at this early stage.

Unless it comes with tyres that are absolute mungers I'd do the following first:
1) Get the wheel alignment checked to ensure it's spot-on. You could even ask them to double check it as part of the PD (they did mine). Ask for a print out to make sure they aren't just nodding their head.
2) Add some sound deadening to the rear end - in the load area & under the rear seats. It does wonders.

[K4neX]

If you don't know what it comes with then why would you be considering a change at this early stage.

Unless it comes with tyres that are absolute mungers I'd do the following first:
1) Get the wheel alignment checked to ensure it's spot-on. You could even ask them to double check it as part of the PD (they did mine). Ask for a print out to make sure they aren't just nodding their head.
2) Add some sound deadening to the rear end - in the load area & under the rear seats. It does wonders.

Thanks for the tips.

I am asking based on my previous experience, the two times I bought a new car, they came with ok tyres. Only when they needed to be replace and found that the new tyres that I put on were quieter and felt better on the road.

[brad]

If the MK3 is like the MK2 the tyres won't be bad. The 16" on my Elegance came in 3 brands. The worst was a Bridgestone touring tyre, There was something reasonable in the middle (can't remember) & the best (IMO) was the Conti CSC2. You couldn't have gone wrong with any of them.

edit: new tyres will always be quieter than old worn out tyres

[k_rider]

The toe can be correct & the steering wheel offset... or the toe may be out.

To the OP - incorrect front toe doesn't generally cause a pull / drift unless it's horrendously wrong. Suggest you take it back & get it checked & tweaked. Also ask for a print out of all the current settings & post them here. Front camber, caster & toe. Rear camber, toe & thrust line.

I wouldn't say the tech has stuffed up - just needs to tweak it slightly as sometimes a slightly off steering wheel isn't noticeable on a test drive.

Finally got my car back today to get the wheel alignment checked again. Also asked for a printout of the settings.

If I'm interpreting the numbers correctly, it seems the front toe was out to some extent, as this was the setting that had the most significant change. Again, if I'm interpreting correctly, both front wheels were pointing a little to the left (or is that a little to the right???)

Front toe
was: +1.1mm LH -0.4mm RH
now: +0.5mm LH +0.6mm RH

Front camber
was: -0 deg 13' LH -0 deg 52' RH
now: -0 deg 23' LH -0 deg 45' RH

Front caster
was: +8 deg 11' LH +8 deg 31' RH
now: +7 deg 59' LH +8 deg 20' RH

Rear toe
was: +0.1mm LH +0.7mm RH
now: +0.8mm LH +0.6 mm RH

Rear camber
was: -1 deg 42' LH -1 deg 31' RH
now: -1 deg 49' LH -1 deg 21' RH

Rear thrust angle
was: 0 deg 2'
now: 0 deg 1'

[brad]

Total toe was +0.7mm & now it's +1.1

Front Camber isn't easily adjustable on the front so how did they change it? Ideally, you should have about 0.25 - 0.5 more negative on the LHS than the RHS so it walks up the camber of the road. They either need to do some finessing with the lower ball joints or shift the subframe over a fraction to the left.

Front Castor isn't adjustable. Why has it changed on the LHS? Again, you want a fraction more castor (up to 1 degree) on the L than the right to compensate for road camber. I have no idea how to tweak this on an Octavia - maybe the subframe again? I'd also be looking at the rear console bushes on the lower control arms to see if they are a bit tired.

Rear camber & toe are OK unless you are getting saw-toothing on the rear - then you'd pull the camber a bit more towards -1.

Some of the changes from before to after are so minute I'd be wondering if the tyre pressures are the same or if there was more/less fuel or cargo. I'd also be wondering about when the machine was last calibrated.

I haven't got time to look back through the thread - where'd you get it done again? If your at Cherrybrook then maybe try Wholesale Suspension at Penriff.

[donweather]

Are front camber/castor adjustable with the supaloy LCAs with adjustable lower ball joints?

[brad]

camber - yes

castor - I doubt it. You'd have to ask them.

To change castor you have to be able to move either the top of the strut backwards & forwards or the LCA or ball joint backwards/forwards. It isn't an angle that causes tyre wear.

[Martin]

Are front camber/castor adjustable with the supaloy LCAs with adjustable lower ball joints?

The supaloy comes in two packages, standard and extra which has an adjustable lower ball joint.
Chasing castor will reduce the amount of static camber you can have - which is ok
(Caster creates more negative camber when you turn the steering wheel)

[k_rider]

brad, interesting response... I know you said that you were involved in the tyre business at some point, so I bow to your greater knowledge on the subject than me! I admit I only know a little about it - I know what toe, camber and caster are, but that's about it.

To that end, I really don't know what they did, just that they changed things. My complaint was that the steering wheel was a couple of degrees to the left of centre when the car was tracking in a straight line. It was actually tracking OK otherwise. Bottom line is, the car is tracking straight and the steering wheel is now pointing dead ahead when traveling in a straight line, so I have the outcome I was after!

However, that said and picking up on your comment about tyre pressure, I did check the tyre pressures myself this afternoon (yes, I realise that I should have done it before I took the car in yesterday ) and found that the LH front tyre had about 20 kPa (sorry, I don't do imperial) more in it than the RH front, 270 and 250 respectively. It'll be interesting to see if that changes anything. Fuel load may have been a bit different, I think it may have had a bit more in the tank this time around. Car otherwise had exactly the same load. I wouldn't expect bushes to be particularly worn on a 3 year old, 43k km car.

Had the job done at Bob Jane Castle Hill (who fitted my new tyres and did the alignment at that time - and got it a bit wrong).

[brad]

The first thing the aligner should do is check tyre pressures.

If it goes straight & the tyres aren't wearing then that's all that matters - the figures mean jack.

[k_rider]

The first thing the aligner should do is check tyre pressures.

Amen to that, but it's been my sad experience that the vast majority of tradies I've ever had to deal with just don't have that attention to detail.

I suppose it remains to be seen whether or not the tyres wear abnormally. If I can get 40k+ km out of them, as I did with the OE CSC2s, I won't be too unhappy.

Thanks for your comments brad, I'm happy to say I've learnt a little bit more about wheel and suspension alignment as a result.