Skoda RS replacement tyres - interesting

[Diesel_vert]

The odd thing about it all is that I can't find any Skoda reference to vRS tyre speed ratings. I thought it was law to have it on the vehicle tyre placard, which is inside the fuel cap flap, but it's not there, only the tyre sizes relevant to engine power output in kW.

Hmm, not particularly helpful.

Skoda has a list of approved tyre sizes and fitments (with the corresponding load index and speed symbol) for each of its vehicles in the workshop manual. One would need access to ElsaWin or ask your nearest friendly dealer to print out the list.

It gives the production date, and some weights, which I think may be relevant to tyre load indexes of axle group 1 (front tyres), and axle group 2 (rear tyres), but it doesn't say so.

The maximum axle load is but one of many factors that engineers consider when specifying a tyre during the car's design phase.

The point of all this is that NSW law doesn't say that you must fit the same speed rating as originally fitted by a manufacturer.

Yes, to the best of my knowledge, that regulation still stands.

I'm not going to be doing anywhere near 300 kph in my RS oil burner wagon, but there are possible insurance issues at stake. There have been quite a few references to RSs having "Y' speed rated tyres, because that's what they arrive with, but has anyone got it in black and white as to what the manufacturers speed rating spec actually is? I'm buggered if I can find one.

Although a tyre's speed symbol is an indication of it's maximum operating speed, it also reflects it's construction and resistance to heat, which has implications on its ability to cope with dynamic loads and forces over time.

Try not to focus too much on the 'headline figure' of 300 km/h.

Having said that, it is uncommon for most 225/40 R18 summer tyres to have a speed symbol of V (240 km/h) or less. Most summer tyres in that size tend to be W-rated (270 km/h) or Y-rated (300 km/h).

Sorry for the crap photography, but note the differences between dodgey's placard compared to the one on my MY11. No load index, and no minimum speed rating.

The load index of a tyre is not arbitrarily assigned to a tyre size.
Every tyre size has a corresponding load index as specified by the ETRTO (European Tyre and Rim Technical Organisation):

A 225/45 R17 will have a load index of 91 (standard load) or 94 (extra load).

A 225/40 R18 will have a load index of 88 (standard load) or 92 (extra load).


Though there would be less confusion if the placard included the respective load index for each tyre.

You may see some slight variations in the load index depending on which standard the tyre was manufactured to (ETRTO = Europe, TRA = USA, JATMA = Japan are the three major associations) but this is uncommon for passenger car tyres sold in Australia, so you are unlikely to encounter this.

I'm assuming so. That and that the first two weights are the unladed and laden, or gross and tare weights, and the next two, shown as 1 and 2 are the axle group weights. "1" is always the front, and "2" is always the rear.

Five weights, five assumptions. What's the point of a bunch of numbers on an "information" plate without any indication of what they're relevant to?

1985 kg: Gross vehicle mass (GVM)
3385 kg: Gross combination mass (GCM) i.e. permissible gross mass with trailer
1060 kg: Maximum permissible front axle load
950 kg: Maximum permissible rear axle load
650 kg: Permissible unbraked trailer load

This information should be in the owner's manual.

...

Given the odds, fitting tyres with a lesser speed symbol than the original tyres (within reason) won't have a noticeably adverse affect on safety - particularly if you drive in a conservative manner.

[brad]

Mine is the same format as dodgey's with a load index of 91 but a min speed rating of V (because I have the 1.8tsi).

I'd almost suggest that you have the wrong decal under the fuel flap. It wouldn't be the first time this has happened on a VW group vehicle - some of the Transporters had similar issues.

[BottomScratcher]

Skoda has a list of approved tyre sizes and fitments (with the corresponding load index and speed symbol) for each of its vehicles in the workshop manual. One would need access to ElsaWin or ask your nearest friendly dealer to print out the list.

Yes, I was going to ask the Service Dept of the dealership where I'll be getting my 30K service done.

The maximum axle load is but one of many factors that engineers consider when specifying a tyre during the car's design phase.

For sure. It's no so relevant to the average car driver, but ask any trucky who's ever been booked for being overweight not on the gross vehicle mass, but on one specific axle.

Yes, to the best of my knowledge, that regulation still stands.

Confusing though as it clearly says, "strongly recommended" rather than must, but then says if you do reduce the speed rating from that shown on the "vehicle's tyre placard" you "must" put a sticker on the windscreen. My point is I don't have a speed rating on my vehicle tyre placard. How does that comply with ADR's?

Although a tyre's speed symbol is an indication of it's maximum operating speed, it also reflects it's construction and resistance to heat, which has implications on its ability to cope with dynamic loads and forces over time.

Try not to focus too much on the 'headline figure' of 300 km/h.

Having said that, it is uncommon for most 225/40 R18 summer tyres to have a speed symbol of V (240 km/h) or less. Most summer tyres in that size tend to be W-rated (270 km/h) or Y-rated (300 km/h).

Yep! Understand that as well. Some tyres are even dual/multi rated, some cars are dual/multi placarded, and a speed rating of ZR is for 240 kph+, so it incorporates both W, and Y.

The load index of a tyre is not arbitrarily assigned to a tyre size.
Every tyre size has a corresponding load index as specified by the ETRTO (European Tyre and Rim Technical Organisation):

A 225/45 R17 will have a load index of 91 (standard load) or 94 (extra load).

A 225/40 R18 will have a load index of 88 (standard load) or 92 (extra load).


Though there would be less confusion if the placard included the respective load index for each tyre.

I'm on top of that too, but as you've said, a vehicle's tyre placard should indicate a minimum LI for each of the specified sizes on it.

1985 kg: Gross vehicle mass (GVM)
3385 kg: Gross combination mass (GCM) i.e. permissible gross mass with trailer
1060 kg: Maximum permissible front axle load
950 kg: Maximum permissible rear axle load
650 kg: Permissible unbraked trailer load

This information should be in the owner's manual.

On page 261 of my book the weights for 125kW TDI shows the Combi RS DQ6 "Permissable gross weight" to be 1985 kg, and the "Permissable trailer loads, trailer unbraked" to be 650 kg. The other weights shown in the book do not correlate to any of the other weights on the plate on my car.

Given the odds, fitting tyres with a lesser speed symbol than the original tyres (within reason) won't have a noticeably adverse affect on safety - particularly if you drive in a conservative manner.

Mate, I agree with everything you've said, including this bit. I'm more concerned about whether an over zealous insurance assessor will see it the same way though.

[BottomScratcher]

i've got an my11, but i have the same placard as dodgey's.
but mine is a petrol, not a diesel like urs.

Weird. I know it's a rubbish photo, but if you strain your eyes a bit you can see that my placard shows sizes for both the 125kW diesel, and the 147kW petrol, in both 17" and 18" sizes.

[BottomScratcher]

I'd almost suggest that you have the wrong decal under the fuel flap. It wouldn't be the first time this has happened on a VW group vehicle - some of the Transporters had similar issues.

Mate, right or wrong, it's as useful as a Polly Waffle in a knife fight. I'll check with the dealer when I get time and post an update after I do.

[Diesel_vert]

My point is I don't have a speed rating on my vehicle tyre placard. How does that comply with ADR's?

It doesn't.

So I wonder - does that mean the authorities can technically declare your vehicle as being unroadworthy, unregisterable, and thus render your comprehensive and third-party insurance null and void?

Or am I being overly dramatic?

On page 261 of my book the weights for 125kW TDI shows the Combi RS DQ6 "Permissable gross weight" to be 1985 kg, and the "Permissable trailer loads, trailer unbraked" to be 650 kg. The other weights shown in the book do not correlate to any of the other weights on the plate on my car.

I'd be inclined to think that misprints are common in owner's manuals, but rarer on a vehicle's EC type-approval plate.

But in case of discrepancies, I suppose it would be safest to assume the correct figures are the lower of the two.

I'm more concerned about whether an over zealous insurance assessor will see it the same way though.

I don't think it matters what their view is - the regulations in NSW are pretty clear IMO.

[BottomScratcher]

It doesn't.

So I wonder - does that mean the authorities can technically declare your vehicle as being unroadworthy, unregisterable, and thus render your comprehensive and third-party insurance null and void?

Or am I being overly dramatic?

No, it doesn't.

There's a not so good picture of my tyre placard above, and there's no speed ratings or LI's stated on it anywhere. Only tyre sizes and pressures are listed. That's why I questioned, as you have done, as to how it can comply with ADR's let alone state authorities, and also mentioned over zealous insurance assessors. Whether overdramatic, or not, it wouldn't even be a consideration if the bloody info was on the so-called tyre placard where it's supposed to be.

I'd be inclined to think that misprints are common in owner's manuals, but rarer on a vehicle's EC type-approval plate.

But in case of discrepancies, I suppose it would be safest to assume the correct figures are the lower of the two.

Agreed. Another reason to state what the weights represent rather than just list them. What the Owners Manual calls the "Tyre Plate" (also a pic in a previous post) bears no tyre info at all. It shows a list of weights with no reference to what they represent.

I don't think it matters what their view is - the regulations in NSW are pretty clear IMO.

Which brings us back to square one, because the regulation specifically refers to the speed rating on the vehicle tyre placard, and mine doesn't show any speed rating/s.

It's bizarre that I need to ask a dealer for info necessary to ensure that when I replace the car's tyres I'm complying with the manufacturers specs, state legislation, and subsequently insurers terms and conditions applicable to my policy.

[dArK5HaD0w]

Weird. I know it's a rubbish photo, but if you strain your eyes a bit you can see that my placard shows sizes for both the 125kW diesel, and the 147kW petrol, in both 17" and 18" sizes.

in some countries, like ireland & china, the vrs comes with 17" as standard, not 18".

[BottomScratcher]

in some countries, like ireland & china, the vrs comes with 17" as standard, not 18".

On my placard the 17s are a 45 profile, and the 18s are a 40 profile, but not a speed rating, or load index for any of them.

[Diesel_vert]

There's a not so good picture of my tyre placard above, and there's no speed ratings or LI's stated on it anywhere. Only tyre sizes and pressures are listed. That's why I questioned, as you have done, as to how it can comply with ADR's let alone state authorities, and also mentioned over zealous insurance assessors. Whether overdramatic, or not, it wouldn't even be a consideration if the bloody info was on the so-called tyre placard where it's supposed to be.

I wasn't being that serious and, despite your concerns, I simply don't foresee it being an issue.

Agreed. Another reason to state what the weights represent rather than just list them. What the Owners Manual calls the "Tyre Plate" (also a pic in a previous post) bears no tyre info at all. It shows a list of weights with no reference to what they represent.

What you're referring to is called the EC type-approval plate, which is required for every car sold in the EU, and the information on it is standardised (which is how I knew what they meant).

It's not a tyre plate - if the owner's manual refers to it as such, it's a misprint or a typo.

Which brings us back to square one, because the regulation specifically refers to the speed rating on the vehicle tyre placard, and mine doesn't show any speed rating/s.

It's bizarre that I need to ask a dealer for info necessary to ensure that when I replace the car's tyres I'm complying with the manufacturers specs, state legislation, and subsequently insurers terms and conditions applicable to my policy.

If we can ignore the placard shenanigans and just be practical for a moment, it would be safe to assume that the manufacturer approved fitments for the Octavia RS are:

225/45 R17 91W
225/40 R18 92Y XL

You can verify this after you've obtained the print out from the workshop manual.

And yes, you shouldn't have to ask the dealer (though it isn't a big inconvenience in the grand scheme of things), but such is life.

[BottomScratcher]

I wasn't being that serious and, despite your concerns, I simply don't foresee it being an issue.

I came across this anomaly while pricing Michelin PS3 tyres. A lot of forum members have given favourable reviews of them after fitting them to their cars. It crossed my mind that if two senior sales professionals at a reputable tyre firm weren't across the NSW regulation pertaining to speed ratings then perhaps a few average motorists aren't either.

Michelin don't make a Y rated 225/40 R18 PS3, so I think it fair to say that many forum members could be running W rated PS3s. Maybe they have speed ratings on their vehicle tyre placards, and are compliant with NSW regs. I don't, and my car is currently fitted with Y rated tyres.

It's not a tyre plate - if the owner's manual refers to it as such, it's a misprint or a typo.

I see your point, and think it's a case of lost in translation. "Tyer plote" would be a misprint, or a typo. Someone made a conscious decision to call it a tyre plate. That it is referred to as one in the manual is no mistake.

If we can ignore the placard shenanigans and just be practical for a moment, it would be safe to assume that the manufacturer approved fitments for the Octavia RS are:

225/45 R17 91W
225/40 R18 92Y XL

You can verify this after you've obtained the print out from the workshop manual.

And yes, you shouldn't have to ask the dealer (though it isn't a big inconvenience in the grand scheme of things), but such is life.

I'll agree to disagree. I think it impossible to ignore the placard shenanigan's. Just as it's impractical, if not unwise to assume what the manufacturers tyre fitments are.

RTA VSI No9 says, "From 1973 all cars are fitted with a tyre placard (usually located in the glove box, the engine bay, or on a doorpillar) which specifies the wheel and tyre combinations recommended by the vehicle manufacturer. The placard also specifies load capacity, speed rating, and the recommended tyre pressures."

Under "Tyre speed rating" it says, "If the replacement tyres fitted, including winter tyre treads (commonly called "mud and snow" tyres) and retreaded tyres, have a speed rating less than that shown on the vehicle's tyre placard, then a warning label must be affixed to the vehicle (usually by the tyre dealer) which states: Warning. This vehicle is fitted with tyres that have a lower speed rating than that stated on the tyre placard. RTA VSI No.9"

I fully understand the engineering side of things. Even a V rated tyre must be capable of sustaining a factor of safety of 10% of its speed rating for 10 minutes, meaning it can run at 264 kmh for 10 minutes before any structural defect occurs.

What you, or I forsee as an insurance issue is as worth as much as we get paid for posting here. We don't underwrite other people's insurance policies. RTA VSI No9 gives an insurance warning in its introduction on the first page.

I'll try to get some answers from a dealer.

[Diesel_vert]

I came across this anomaly while pricing Michelin PS3 tyres. A lot of forum members have given favourable reviews of them after fitting them to their cars. It crossed my mind that if two senior sales professionals at a reputable tyre firm weren't across the NSW regulation pertaining to speed ratings then perhaps a few average motorists aren't either.

Michelin don't make a Y rated 225/40 R18 PS3, so I think it fair to say that many forum members could be running W rated PS3s. Maybe they have speed ratings on their vehicle tyre placards, and are compliant with NSW regs. I don't, and my car is currently fitted with Y rated tyres.

Practically speaking, whatever the approved fitment may be, it's a bit of a moot point in NSW - because the regulations allow you to fit a tyre with a lesser speed symbol regardless.

The only issue here is a technicality - the missing information on the tyre placard (load index and speed symbol). Yes, it's inconvenient, but the missing info can easily be sought after by anyone placing a phone call or sending an email to any Skoda dealer.

RTA VSI No9 says, "From 1973 all cars are fitted with a tyre placard (usually located in the glove box, the engine bay, or on a doorpillar) which specifies the wheel and tyre combinations recommended by the vehicle manufacturer. The placard also specifies load capacity, speed rating, and the recommended tyre pressures."

Under "Tyre speed rating" it says, "If the replacement tyres fitted, including winter tyre treads (commonly called "mud and snow" tyres) and retreaded tyres, have a speed rating less than that shown on the vehicle's tyre placard, then a warning label must be affixed to the vehicle (usually by the tyre dealer) which states: Warning. This vehicle is fitted with tyres that have a lower speed rating than that stated on the tyre placard. RTA VSI No.9"

What you, or I forsee as an insurance issue is as worth as much as we get paid for posting here. We don't underwrite other people's insurance policies. RTA VSI No9 gives an insurance warning in its introduction on the first page.

I'll try to get some answers from a dealer.

You are right in saying that we don't underwrite insurance policies, but my personal opinion is that I don't think anything will come of it, unless you start fitting 225/40 R18 88Y or 88W tyres or something.

The safest way would be to get the same type of tyre that was originally fitted from the factory (225/40 R18 92Y XL). Rarely is the case that factory fitted tyres contravene local regulations.

[brad]

get somebody with the same engine/trans/body combo as yours to post up their tyre placard from the fuel lid. Bottom right will have the partno of the placard. Tell your dealer to supply one FOC. problem solved. It wouldn't be the first VW in AUS to be supplied with an incorrect placard.

PS: it will have the same info as a 147 TSI VRs - minimum load index of 91 & minimum speed of W.

Storm Teacup Here

[BottomScratcher]

get somebody with the same engine/trans/body combo as yours to post up their tyre placard from the fuel lid. Bottom right will have the partno of the placard. Tell your dealer to supply one FOC. problem solved. It wouldn't be the first VW in AUS to be supplied with an incorrect placard.

PS: it will have the same info as a 147 TSI VRs - minimum load index of 91 & minimum speed of W.

Storm Teacup Here

brad,
I rang a dealership this morning, and they assumed that the specs were on the plate, and I couldn't locate them on it. I asked for an email address and sent a clearer photo than the one on here. I'm waiting to see what comes back.

Like you, I'm convinced that I've got the wrong sticker inside the filler flap. I've asked another forum member with a vRS TDI wagon (MY11 I think) for a pic of his placard. It might seem I'm being pedantic, but it's not like insurance companies aren't thorough. Frankly, I don't see it as a technicality, or a storm in a teacup. The info is required by law to be on the placard, and it's not. As to whether it would ever come to a dispute with either the RTA or my insurer is admittedly probably very remote. None the less, it's a gamble I shouldn't be in the position of having to take.

[Mysticality]

MY12 (07/11) vRS TDI 6M