Pity the Europeans can,t see the follly of their ways .

[Sunny43.5]

One of the best responses I have seen in years pity other car makers don,t follow his direction .
Hyundai: Luxury brands focus on "stupid" tech

[Rooboy]

I don't necessarily disagree but maybe he, and Hyundai, should heed his own advice. From the first drive review - "The engine noise has been digitised and is pumped through the speakers, and even though it may be artificial it’s still a nice noise.". Pointless tech. Some of the tech, such as the camera, is necessary for some of the safety systems incorporated into new cars.

[gldgti]

Hehe, he might think air suspension is stupid, but I would disagree.... air suspension is wonderful - for me.

Its all horses for courses. When your buying a luxury sedan, you're "needs" arent really "needs" at all. They are "wants". Hence why the cars he is talking about are full of so called useless stuff, tested on racetracks. When you can afford to buy a 2+ tonne luxury sedan, do you even care if it is unreliable? Probably not.

If you have saved your pennies to buy a $25-30k Hyundai do you really care if its realiable? Ofcourse you do.

I think he's really making a mute point.

[Sunny43.5]

Without starting WW 111 I think some are missing the point , many of the things we are seeing in cars today are not worth having or cannot be trusted or were badly conceived . If we want to enjoy driving cars we should avoid all this stuff as car makers are pushing us towards autonomous cars , now where is the fun in that , plus from an old guy I like to think the reason I got my license in the first place was that i was taught how to use my eyes and my brain and my common sense while driving . I was taught how to reverse park , now days too many people are buying a car with all this stuff just because it saves them from using their brain .

[Bug_racer]

EFI was once called useless tech and was unreliable compared to carby's . Times change ....

[Sunny43.5]

Ever tried to fix an EFI at the side of the road ? like lots of clever technology DMF DPF EGR MAF DSG they will leave you stranded . Ok time marches on and we must move with the times , but maybe just maybe car makers are going too far ? This is what I would suggest is his rational . Quote "“If the tech will fail, you’re just adding the burden to the buyer, right?”
Biermann explained the Korean brand has focused on simple technology for its Genesis models in order to create long-term reliable vehicles. He says Hyundai chairman, Chung Mong-koo, wants all Hyundai and Genesis models to be “like new” after 10 years on the road. "end Quote .Try telling that to the Germans when your auto goes out to lunch after only 120000km because of stupid technology , or your DPF clogs up after only a few thousand km , or your DMF fails because they coupled it to a tiny engine fitted to a commercial van designed to carry 1 ton on top of its nearly 2 ton kerb weight .

[Bug_racer]

DMF has nothing to do with EFI
DPF is only on diesel cars
EGR is as common on Carby cars as what it is on efi cars
MAFs are pretty reliable these days and Ive noticed a trend to no longer run a MAF instead to run a MAP
DSG is a gearbox .

Essentially I have similar arguments with people in regards to my Golf R and its ability to run low 11 second 1/4s and be driven 12+ hours to venues at times . How many early model cars without engine/gearbox transplants are able to do that , and still manage to use 9.5l per 100kms ?

[gldgti]

Ever tried to fix an EFI at the side of the road ? like lots of clever technology DMF DPF EGR MAF DSG they will leave you stranded . Ok time marches on and we must move with the times , but maybe just maybe car makers are going too far ? This is what I would suggest is his rational . Quote "“If the tech will fail, you’re just adding the burden to the buyer, right?”
Biermann explained the Korean brand has focused on simple technology for its Genesis models in order to create long-term reliable vehicles. He says Hyundai chairman, Chung Mong-koo, wants all Hyundai and Genesis models to be “like new” after 10 years on the road. "end Quote .Try telling that to the Germans when your auto goes out to lunch after only 120000km because of stupid technology , or your DPF clogs up after only a few thousand km , or your DMF fails because they coupled it to a tiny engine fitted to a commercial van designed to carry 1 ton on top of its nearly 2 ton kerb weight .

I dont really get it. My last 3 cars have been luxury german vehicles - 2 allroads and a Touareg.

The Touareg is 10 years old. Everything works, its basically like new. OK its got body wear and tear as you would expect, but nothing has failed. Its got all the bells and whistles.

The C6 allroad was 9 years old. Same story.

The c5 allroad had a few expensive problems.... it also had a lot more km on it, and it was a bit older. You might be interested to note that Hyundai Genesis models used the same ZF 5hp19 and now 6hp19 transmission as in the allroads...

Who can predict what will be failing on luxury german cars 10 years from now? Not me. But my 10 year old Touaregs DPF's are not clogged.

You are sighting expamples which are not within the luxury market being discussed in the article...

[brad]

People forget how crap cars were. I can't believe how reliable and well built they are these days.

I was a qualified motor mechanic from 1979-1989.
Lets see...
oil changes every 3000km / 3months - at least you got to know your customers really well - I even dated a few
spark plugs every 10,000km (leaded fuel)
Points every 10,000km
Air and fuel filters (if fitted) every 20,000km
Mechanical EFI systems were a nightmare (esp Kugelfucher or whatever it was) but so were twin carbs and SU/Solex and webbers.
Not to mention all the other stuff (uni joints, ball joints, tie rod ends that needed greasing and still wore out before 100,000km.

A car was considered old and worn out at 160,000km.

And they were gutless!

My 4.2L VB Commodore was <90kw
My 5.9L Chrysler 2BBL was around120kw about the same as my current 1.8tsi Octavia. The Chrysler averaged 14mpg (20L/100km) if I took it easy. 6mpg (47L/100km) if I gave it some stick.

Plus all the safety stuff on modern cars like ABS and stability control.

I know there's some useless tech on modern cars but I'd hate to go back to an older car as a daily.

[Sunny43.5]

[QUOTE You are sighting examples which are not within the luxury market being discussed in the article...[/QUOTE] So from your experience it seems if you buy luxury high priced cars then those issues are not applicable , just remeber those same manufactureres make other models that are probably bought more commonly by the wider population . It is well known that the luxury models are equipped with lots of tech stuff and it does filter down into the lower priced models over time , GPS was the norm in high end models now its common in much lesser ones . So the same ideaology the Koreans are highlighting does apply to lower models , I suppose its easy to forget that Golf owners were saddled with some disastorous examples of smart technology and those cars have luxury models within the range . I love this bit I borrowed from the comments in the article from a writer {Thanks MR Majestyk }


Quote " The level of stupid tech in Euro's make them nothing more than very expensive mobile living rooms. Pack in as much tech as you can for the sake of bragging rights and keep quiet about the rapier costs when it all fails. Interior, seats, brakes engine handling steering are what really matters. I only want the tech that improves the real driving experience, not crap like heated vanity mirrors, 47 speaker sound system, autonomous braking, blah blah. It's no wonder they are pushing autonomous driving, already they want you think as little as possible and let the car do as much as possible. "

[VW Convert]

It's interesting that Mr Biermann, the former head of BMW's M division and a 30 year BMW veteran has suddenly changed his perspective on technology now that his pay packet comes from a lower tech manufacturer.

As for "We have a solid Hyundai steel platform, tonnes of high-strength steel – okay, it’s a little bit heavier than the other cars", in other words, we can't get the weight down on this car so we'll pitch it's extra weight and low tech as a positive.

High tech maybe the high end manufacturers marketing hype, excess weight and low tech is Hyundai's marketing hype. It's all about creating a perception.

Cheers

George

[blutopless2]

If car manufacturers are not offering anything "new and improved" then people will not spend money to keep upgrading.. we would still be driving beetles and kombis around... this is no difference to any other manufacturer... look at TV's and electronic devices... gaming consoles.. whitegoods... gee now my fridge can connect to the internet and order **** that I'm running out of...
so this is nothing new... but in the end people must want it otherwise it would not be offered...
You also need to factor in the safety aspect of newer cars... tech is improving to improve safety.
"I like to think the reason I got my license in the first place was that i was taught how to use my eyes and my brain and my common sense while driving"
This is the reason we have so much tech in cars to "assist" us while driving... because people are not using common sense anymore.
Ultimately we are heading towards autonomous cars as people will eventually no longer be trusted to drive.

[woofy]

"I like to think the reason I got my license in the first place was that i was taught how to use my eyes and my brain and my common sense while driving"
This is the reason we have so much tech in cars to "assist" us while driving... because people are not using common sense anymore.
Ultimately we are heading towards autonomous cars as people will eventually no longer be trusted to drive.

Its not so much common sense as much as autonomous can detect things well before we can. Yes my car annoys me when it thinks I'm gonna rearend a car slowing down to go around a corner. But you know what, plenty of people get hit from behind. If that stops someone else hitting me who got distracted by kids in the back etc than so be it. Same with parking sensors, plenty of people bagged them, but if it means your car doesn't get hit in a car park as often, then it was worth it. We have more cars on the road than ever before, which means more chances for crap to happen, so anything to minimise that is worth it. And even people who were taught to use their eyes and brain and common sense like my grandfather, one day can no longer rely on them as well, and mysterious scrapes start appearing on their car. What you have now might one day fail you and the car might just be the difference between being around longer and not.

[gldgti]

I'm not sure you're going to get the affirmation of beliefs you are looking for here.

Despite the hyperbole you quoted, the reality is that the majority of manufacturers, regardless of what part of the world they originate from, make both basic and high end vehicles. In recent years VAG has done a pretty poor job of some of the aspects of their vehicles, some of those being quite serious. I would argue that they have done quite a good job at the high end of the market however. There are marques with justifiably bad reputations with regard to reliability in the luxury end of things (Land Rover!) but I don't think VAG is one of them.

You seem to believe that the market forces work back-to-front... manufacturers put various technologies in their vehicles not because they demand that consumers buy it, but because consumers demand they want it. The products are a reflection of the market. A new base model golf or polo has emergency city braking not because VAG think its a good idea, but because people who buy the cars think its a good idea.

All of this to say that if you don't want it... then don't buy it! Its as simple as that. If the manufacturer isn't making what you want, go elsewhere..... I'm sure Hyundai would love your custom.

There is no conspiracy to turn us all into mindless passengers in autonomous cars full of "useless" technology.

[Ozsko]

Without starting WW 111 I think some are missing the point , many of the things we are seeing in cars today are not worth having or cannot be trusted or were badly conceived . If we want to enjoy driving cars we should avoid all this stuff as car makers are pushing us towards autonomous cars , now where is the fun in that , plus from an old guy I like to think the reason I got my license in the first place was that i was taught how to use my eyes and my brain and my common sense while driving . I was taught how to reverse park , now days too many people are buying a car with all this stuff just because it saves them from using their brain .

Point one...Not everyone enjoys driving cars, to some it is onerous but necessary and some of that tech makes that task easier and less onerous.

When I first got my license cars did not even have heaters and those that did the fan was optional so I appreciate all the modern tech that cars now have and all I can say is bring on the rest. My first driving course was live in 8 weeks full time and we had to reverse park a Landrover with a trailer on the back between two other vehicles among other stuff that was equally as hard. I went on to driving trucks full time and when the first autos became available on our fleet my dreams came true.