Shock Horror - we are getting screwed by Car Dealers on W'tee and Servicing

[Ozsko]

If apprentices are not allowed to work on your car how do they become qualified and open up their own independent workshops? I sense a double standard here, I could be wrong of course but it seems one of the first whinges of all these threads, we don't want an apprentice working on our precious car. Where do you think the independent technician got his experience, working on cars as an apprentice of course.

[weonarok]

If apprentices are not allowed to work on your car how do they become qualified and open up their own independent workshops? I sense a double standard here, I could be wrong of course but it seems one of the first whinges of all these threads, we don't want an apprentice working on our precious car. Where do you think the independent technician got his experience, working on cars as an apprentice of course.

Agree wholeheartedly, but, where issues arise is when these apprentices are allowed to work on any/all vehicles completely unsupervised while the overseeing qualified mechanic is working on an unrelated job and management charging full hourly rate for two qualified mechanics, but in reality that wouldn't happen would it. [emoji848]

I personally don't have a problem with apprentices touching my vehicle, but only if the head mechanic is keeping an eye on proceedings, at least from a distance. A first year should be doing more observing/learning than actual hands on and practicing on non customer/wrecks to build confidence, but that also depends on the individual as we all learn at different speeds.

[BenT]

I've always used Customer Care Automotive in Ringwood for 6 new cars over the last 19 years and never had issues getting warranty repairs from the dealer.


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[Ozsko]

Apprentices have always worked unsupervised to some extent if not totally a lot of the time. That is how they get experience at making decisions and working out how to do stuff and it is how your favorite independent workshop tech got to be where he is. My workshop/dealer experience goes back over 40 years and it has never been any different. My son who stupidly followed in my foot steps was running a work shop while still an apprentice as that is what was required of him as part of his training but I have never seen any other workshop do that. As you may have guessed this is a bit of a hobby horse of mine. The industry is in dire straits and can't get enough trained personnel to fill positions and car owners are going to be paying through the neck because of it in a few years time as dealers are paying the thick end of a 100K to keep good techs. This was unheard of a few years ago but not now and my son is loving it and says it will only get better as the shortage gets worse.

[Umai Naa!!]

Dealerships have better quality control these days.

VW dealers are audited annually on it.

Everything is double-checked by another technician, prior to the customer collecting the vehicle.

Dealerships NEED better techinicians with hands-on experience. They aren't going to be much use after four years of pushing a broom around the workshop.

[Sunny43.5]

I suppose there are other considerations here as well , I employed many apprentices in my earlier years running my own business . The main issue today is that a lot of todays cars have too much technology , apprentices go to learning centres where they probably use laptops to diagnose problems . The other issue then is car makers work on the premise that if something goes wrong during warranty period they will supply a whole component as its easier to bolt on a new part than pull it apart and replace a simple thing like a bearing or seal . This then leads to apprentices not actually getting the hands on skills like the old days , my apprentices were always shown how things could be dissasembled and parts replaced . Who can remember the old days when you took your automatic car to a workshop and they would pull the sump off tighten the bands and other adjustments then refill and away you go , now days replace the whole thing and sell your daughter or wife or girl friend to pay for it !!

[Ozsko]

That is a major problem, old ways change but the old people such as I do not want to change. We think that the way we did things is the way things should be still done but it does not work out like that. The panel beating industry has changed to R&R and so the mechanical side will do the same in spite of us wishing otherwise. Case in point, a leaking high pressure fuel pump the other day, the front seal was leaking, car in warranty, ring the manufacturer to determine how they want to handle it. We knew what they would say and we were told to order a new one so it gets R&R'd not repaired. The plus side to this is labour time is kept to a minimum and the customer gets a brand new item not a repaired unit. I have to ask, where is the down side to putting a brand new item on it instead of risking a repair that might not be successful.

I think a customer who has bought a new car that develops a problem should have new parts fitted where possible. Diagnostic ability is going to be single most important skill to have in the new tech world we are entering for maybe the next decade then even that will be done remotely as some trucks are diagnosed now via a SIM card. That will progress to cars sending a code and the owner getting a message to take it to a dealer for rectification, all done without the owner being aware of the fault in the first place. Welcome to the brave new world of tech, now where did I put that bloody laptop, I can't fix a thing without that.

[stefcio007]

maybe the next decade then even that will be done remotely as some trucks are diagnosed now via a SIM card. That will progress to cars sending a code and the owner getting a message to take it to a dealer for rectification, all done without the owner being aware of the fault in the first place. Welcome to the brave new world of tech, now where did I put that bloody laptop, I can't fix a thing without that.

The Tesla already does this (or at least it's coming as I saw a video detailing the process). Granted electric cars aren't as complicated but if they do it then everyone else will be doing it eventually.

[Ozsko]

Tesla do over the air updates, I don't know if they do diagnosis yet but they may. Volvo trucks in Europe were playing with diagnosis/fault notification some time ago IIRC. I can't see how the independent operator has a future with all this new stuff coming out and electric vehicles don't need oil changes.

[Sunny43.5]

That is a major problem, old ways change but the old people such as I do not want to change. We think that the way we did things is the way things should be still done but it does not work out like that. The panel beating industry has changed to R&R and so the mechanical side will do the same in spite of us wishing otherwise. Case in point, a leaking high pressure fuel pump the other day, the front seal was leaking, car in warranty, ring the manufacturer to determine how they want to handle it. We knew what they would say and we were told to order a new one so it gets R&R'd not repaired. The plus side to this is labour time is kept to a minimum and the customer gets a brand new item not a repaired unit. I have to ask, where is the down side to putting a brand new item on it instead of risking a repair that might not be successful.

I think a customer who has bought a new car that develops a problem should have new parts fitted where possible.

I have no issue with new parts being fitted within warranty but what about outside warranty ? our case was a twenty dollar bearing that failed in an air con compressor it turned into a $1600 part !! as they would not do the bearing on its own . And as for remote diagnoses my mates $120000 Range Rover had a problem with it cutting out when going around a right hand turn at roundabouts .Well after onsite laptop checks a whole new dashboard and half the wiring loom it was still not fixed . Eventually it was hooked up to a computer which then was sending live information to the factory in Germany as R R were owned by BMW at the time ., it was hooked up for several days and finally the fault was found when a mechancic noticed the airbag wiring coming down through the steering hub was rubbing on a locator causing a short which kept stopping the car !!

[Ozsko]

And for every story you can tell me I can tell 10 more. You are blaming the wrong people, the manufacturers are the ones who decide how a car is repaired during the design phase and your independent apprentice free mechanic can no more repair it than a dealer can. Every workshop WITHOUT fail and every dealer WITHOUT fail has their haters because something did not get fixed or repaired and someone else found the problem in 5 seconds while they were drinking a cup of coffee, I have heard it all and more.

We had a VK Commodore brought to us when they were not so old and as simple a car as it was it had a problem that others could not fix after a smash repair. The thing used to try and drive off the road when turning into corners, we put it on the aligner, spot on, looked at it, kicked it even called it names and swore at it but no fix. I was walking past it one day and thought to myself I wonder if the tyre pressures are right, checked them and they were all over the place with one rear right down. it had not been seen due to the then new to us 60% profile tyres that did not look flat and we were not used to looking at them. We then had a happy owner who swore that our workshop was the best thing that had ever happened to the motor industry which simply wasn't true, we had just been lucky, if we and others had checked the basics the problem would have been found weeks before.

We had a car come in the other day (dealer workshop) with a problem, the front radar was faulting, what could possibly be wrong? A tech looked at it after others had shaken their head and walked away and found that the windscreen had been replaced and the camera was not where it should be. He was just more observant than others so a happy owner was the result. We did not get the complete story though and if we had it would have been fixed a lot quicker, was the owner or the tech at fault?

These sorts of things have always happened believe it or not and I can tell more stories than most.

[Rooboy]

And for every story you can tell me I can tell 10 more. You are blaming the wrong people, the manufacturers are the ones who decide how a car is repaired during the design phase and your independent apprentice free mechanic can no more repair it than a dealer can. Every workshop WITHOUT fail and every dealer WITHOUT fail has their haters because something did not get fixed or repaired and someone else found the problem in 5 seconds while they were drinking a cup of coffee, I have heard it all and more.

We had a VK Commodore brought to us when they were not so old and as simple a car as it was it had a problem that others could not fix after a smash repair. The thing used to try and drive off the road when turning into corners, we put it on the aligner, spot on, looked at it, kicked it even called it names and swore at it but no fix. I was walking past it one day and thought to myself I wonder if the tyre pressures are right, checked them and they were all over the place with one rear right down. it had not been seen due to the then new to us 60% profile tyres that did not look flat and we were not used to looking at them. We then had a happy owner who swore that our workshop was the best thing that had ever happened to the motor industry which simply wasn't true, we had just been lucky, if we and others had checked the basics the problem would have been found weeks before.

We had a car come in the other day (dealer workshop) with a problem, the front radar was faulting, what could possibly be wrong? A tech looked at it after others had shaken their head and walked away and found that the windscreen had been replaced and the camera was not where it should be. He was just more observant than others so a happy owner was the result. We did not get the complete story though and if we had it would have been fixed a lot quicker, was the owner or the tech at fault?

These sorts of things have always happened believe it or not and I can tell more stories than most.

You've just reminded me of the old Dirty Wheels column that used to appear in Wheels many years ago - that was just brilliant and was always one of the first things I read

[theresanothersteve]

...sell your daughter or wife or girl friend to pay for it !!

Or all three...