Volkswagen Cleared by Coroner in Melissa Ryan "Unintended Deceleration" Case

[Guest001]

Sadly there are many who do not understand this and do many dangerous things. We tend to feel we are safe and secure in our little cocoon.

This applies to truck drivers as well. Many simply do not realise what they are actually doing.

Things are not made much better by the incident in the M5 (Sydney). What happened was a truck and trailer were travelling into the M5 tunnel when (for some reason) the truck started to tip its trailer. This was not an oversize truck, but something went wrong and the truck started to tip. It was this that put it over the height for the tunnel.

But it amazes me that the authorities do not protect their assets better. For a fraction of the cost and inconvenience, suitable protection can be implemented.

First, give a warning that a load is over height for the tunnel when the truck driver can actually do something about it and leave the motorway.

Second provide a second level of protection that will turn on red lights requiring all vehicles to stop before entering the tunnel if an over height vehicle is still trying to go through.

Third, implement a protective barrier that will prevent damage to the tunnel asset.

All this can be done at much less than the cost of repair and inconvenience.

We all need to take more care, but accidents will happen. No one sets out to do something where someone is killed or injured, or something is damaged or destroyed.

They do have indicators and warnings and later in the day another truck was stopped trying to do a similar thing.

How many people drive through stop signs, same thing they simply don't take any notice of signs.

They also have introduced severe penalties for what happened EG that truck is off the road for 3 months and the driver for more probably

What they should have is lockouts on the tipping mechanism that prevents the tray being raised above a certain speed.
Same as on buses You cant open the doors above a very low speed which could be altered as some trucks have to move whilst tipping a load.
It was said he reached down to pick up his glasses which he had dropped and bumped the tipping lever.

Couldn't he see the warning light on the dash or hear the pump pushing it up.

Carelessness mainly.

[gldgti]

...the number of times i've seen trucks lock brakes up because they are about to bypass the weigh station on the f3 but realise at the very last minute.

As many of these threads eventually evolve over time into 'better driver training could have prevented this situation' - let me be the first to say it here, and get it over with.

I am always weary of what is behind me - i had a good lesson when only 10 years old, when we were on a family holiday and were waiting at traffic lights on Pennant Hills Rd, only to be shunted by a semi into the middle on an intersection. Apart from whiplash, we were all ok, but it taught me from a young age that 1) Trucks are massive 2) Truck drivers dont always see what right infront of them (even if its a 2 tone green Kombi!) and 3) You can do a lot when in a car to position yourself out of harms way if you are alert and careful.

[wai]

...the number of times i've seen trucks lock brakes up because they are about to bypass the weigh station on the f3 but realise at the very last minute.

As many of these threads eventually evolve over time into 'better driver training could have prevented this situation' - let me be the first to say it here, and get it over with.

I am always weary of what is behind me - i had a good lesson when only 10 years old, when we were on a family holiday and were waiting at traffic lights on Pennant Hills Rd, only to be shunted by a semi into the middle on an intersection. Apart from whiplash, we were all ok, but it taught me from a young age that 1) Trucks are massive 2) Truck drivers dont always see what right infront of them (even if its a 2 tone green Kombi!) and 3) You can do a lot when in a car to position yourself out of harms way if you are alert and careful.

Exactly, and that's what defensive driving is all about. Accidents will happen, and all you can ever control is yourself. Don't think you can control others, so do things that you can to minimise the effects of any accidents.

Yes, many trucks do drive extremely close behind vehicles, and I can assure you they CANNOT see a vehicle immediately in front of them.

There used to be a technique taught called "tyres and tarmac". Basically, when you stop behind a vehicle at lights or in traffic, you should always be able to see the vehicle's rear tyres and some tarmac. Many will say that this is too far back, but what it does do is give you room to manoeuvre out should the need arise. If you are right up behind the vehicle in fromt, then you are a spectator if anything happens behind you.

Back to the topic. There will be many who are disappointed with the findings, however it is what it is. From what has been reported, there is strong evidence that other factors are involved and that they provide a better explanation as to what has happened, and what has caused the tragedy. Unless people have other evidence (which should have been put forward if they did), the findings have to be accepted.

[Difinity]

Saddened by the loss of life in this case. Clearly the woman wasn't paying enough attention to the task - driving.
Cannot believe however that the truck driver is not culpable. He drove into the back of her.
If she had braked hard while the rest of the traffic was piling up around her, maybe but I just cannot understand it.
I hope her family can find some peace in all this in time.


Difinity

[Transporter]

To get killed by truck from behind was hardly her fault. IMO, the truck driver is not without the guilt, imagine everyone who brakes suddenly would be run over by the truck.

It happened on the highway, so he must have been aware that there's the car infront of him, you don't get to close to the car suddenly if you're watching the traffic infront of you 100% of the time. If anything, the higher you seat further ahead you see.

[wai]

Saddened by the loss of life in this case. Clearly the woman wasn't paying enough attention to the task - driving.
Cannot believe however that the truck driver is not culpable. He drove into the back of her.
If she had braked hard while the rest of the traffic was piling up around her, maybe but I just cannot understand it.
I hope her family can find some peace in all this in time.

It is human nature to try and find something else to be the cause. In this case, would a reasonable person have expected a sudden slowing down of a vehicle in front of them for no apparent reason. It would be no different to say someone deciding to ride a pushbike at speed onto a pedestrian crossing and expecting cars to simply stop.

We are all responsible for our actions, and sometimes the price paid can be high. We all need to understand that and drive accordingly. Sadly, I doubt it will, and we will continue to have such incidents because we believe we are more capable than this (another human trait). There are still drivers who use mobile devices while driving, or who eat and drink while driving, or who drive after consuming alcohol, or who speed, or who "hoon". We are very poor learners.

[Difinity]

That is true, but the responsibility of the driver behind is still to try to give some room. For sure, 40 on the freeway when everybody else is at 100 will kill you, as seems to have happened here. That the truck driver can reasonably say that he didn't see her because he was too close however is studio and should be criminal. The truck should leave a greater distance so he can see. Doesn't mean he'd avoid the crash, but it may have been somewhat less severe.
People here in Canberra tend to come up too close too - makes me very uncomfortable. After all, not only aware most of our main roads 80-100, we've got kangaroos and sleepy headed inconsiderate drivers to avoid. Someone 6" behind me at 100 doesn't feel safe at all.


Difinity

[The_Hawk]

Volkswagen warned of systemic problem with Polo, Golf models, but waited 10 months to act


Another day, another Fairfax article bashing on VW and linking back to the accident and the coroners report. Still think there isn't an agenda and they aren't using Ms Ryans death inappropriately?

[Candyman]

Well, that same article also then referenced complaints by 8 owners about engine/transmission issues (no further detail) and then made the leap it was a systemic issue.

Few would argue that VW are not the most reliable car range (and have some obvious issues they need to sort out and quick) but there is a lot of media bashing going on for sure.

[JustCruisn]

I was hit from behind by a Subaru driver about 4 years ago. 90km/h zone, he was right up m ass with high beam on. I tried to pull over but he had no room to react. He hit rather hard. My rear wheel ended up on his bonnet. Police charged him, his comprehensive insurance paid out without challenge. But when it came to the personal injury claim totally different story, 3.5 years of arguing I was blamed. They argues it was my fault for trying to stop in a 90 zone.
I got a bigger lawyer and it settled in under 10 minutes in may favour at a face to face meeting.
So once lawyers get involved the actual facts seem to get in the way.

[PassatB6]

Volkswagen warned of systemic problem with Polo, Golf models, but waited 10 months to act


Another day, another Fairfax article bashing on VW and linking back to the accident and the coroners report. Still think there isn't an agenda and they aren't using Ms Ryans death inappropriately?

SMH are aware they have egg on their face after the coroner found VW had no case to answer. Now they are trying to justify their original campaign by simply making stuff up. The coroner found no problem with the Golf in Ms Ryan's case, yet the SMH have to keep battering away pretending there was, somewhere, at some time, a "systemic" problem. Interesting they keep using the same term. Again, the whole article is suggestion and innuendo with the fact that a few owners had vehicle complaints as "proof" of a problem. Poor journalism yet again.

[mfl]

SMH are aware they have egg on their face after the coroner found VW had no case to answer. Now they are trying to justify their original campaign by simply making stuff up. The coroner found no problem with the Golf in Ms Ryan's case, yet the SMH have to keep battering away pretending there was, somewhere, at some time, a "systemic" problem. Interesting they keep using the same term. Again, the whole article is suggestion and innuendo with the fact that a few owners had vehicle complaints as "proof" of a problem. Poor journalism yet again.

SMH article is certainly very poor as it is trying to relate 2 different issues under the one headline. I think the fact that VW has issued 2 recall notices on DSGs might just indicate more than just a few owners have had problems with their cars. The fact that the coroners also suggested that the solution was to ban any use of phones in cars makes his finding questionable. ...Vic Coroner clears Volkswagen of fault in car crash - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) .......The truck driver ran over the top of the GTI because he couldn't stop in time. As an aside on 2 instances I had my GTI lose power while driving, eventually traced to faulty coils, by trial and error, because no error codes ever came up.

[nat225]

Brisbane on highways with 100-110km/h limits, I find 8/10 cars tailgate within 1-2 cars length, even at non peak hours and I am already at the maximum speed limit. If anything happens, there is no way on earth the tailgating car can stop or avoid any troubles.

Suburban streets with 50-60km/h limits, I still find drivers tailgating within 1 car length at least once a week. If there is suddenly a child or a dog crosses the road, there is now way the tailgating car can stop in time without hitting me from behind..

Simple physics, yet so many of these drivers don't bother maintaining distance with common sense for the sake of getting to their destinations 1-5 minutes earlier (or sadly hospitals if bad things happen due to unable to stop safely).

[wai]

Brisbane on highways with 100-110km/h limits, I find 8/10 cars tailgate within 1-2 cars length, even at non peak hours and I am already at the maximum speed limit. If anything happens, there is no way on earth the tailgating car can stop or avoid any troubles.

Suburban streets with 50-60km/h limits, I still find drivers tailgating within 1 car length at least once a week. If there is suddenly a child or a dog crosses the road, there is now way the tailgating car can stop in time without hitting me from behind..

Simple physics, yet so many of these drivers don't bother maintaining distance with common sense for the sake of getting to their destinations 1-5 minutes earlier (or sadly hospitals if bad things happen due to unable to stop safely).

Tailgating is plain stupid, no matter what the speed. In the context of the Ryan case, it was not tailgating, but a huge difference in speed (closing speed) caused by factors that were reported between the truck and her car, that was the most significant factor.

Until all drivers realise what it is they are doing, we will continue to have such incidents. If drivers want to race, then go to a race track. If drivers want to talk on the phone, then pull over or let it go to voicemail. Don't do this on public roads.

Licencing and training need to be reviewed. It must be the only activity of its type where completely unskilled individuals who, in many cases, have little or no understanding of the road rules, have no qualification in training, are then able to train and supervise learners enabling them to then be licenced.

I mean you can have just gone off your Ps and then you can supervise a learner. There is no minimum amount of training required with a qualified instructor. There is also no periodic re-testing. Your eyesight is tested every time you renew your licence, but nothing else is. At least you can be confident you can see the accident you are about to have or cause.

The general standard of driving is appalling across all age groups. Drivers have difficulty remembering the road rules immediately after passing their driving test. Many spend their entire lives avoiding parallel parking because they can't or don't like reversing. They will not park on a hill because they cannot do a hill start (even with all the aids available). They won't drive in heavy traffic because they have a panic attack with all those cars and trucks around them. They won't drive on highways or motorways because they never drove on them when they were learners.

Then in the Sunday Telegraph, the piece on overheight (yes, the article kept using overweight throughout it) vehicles revealed that many truck drivers have trouble understanding the height restrictions, or cannot actually read. It's a bit like the sign you used to see outside lifts that read "In case of fire, do not use lift". Well believe it or not, but many people actually believed that you would cause a fire if you used the lift! As a result, they had to change these signs to read "If there is a fire, do not use the lift"!

So, if we want the situation to improve, there needs to be a drastic change in how we handle driver training and testing.

[Transporter]

I agree that there are many dumb drivers that shouldn't be behind the wheel, when they don't know what is legal and what's not. However, it took more than 1 year to coroner to clear VW and I doubt that Ms Melissa Ryan's family is happy that their daughter is blamed for the accident. So, what should I think about that coroner? On one end, you have the dumb drivers and on the other, the coroner who needs an extremely long time to figure out what had happened, and I'm not sure if he got it right?