DSG woes in The Age

[muli]

Looks like an official Recall will be announced next week from Wolfsburg: More than likely for DQ200 Gearboxes

Drive - Volkswagen Recall | VW Engine Problems | DSG

So if VAG makes a recall does it automatically include audi and skoda or that upto them?

[Transporter]

It would be silly if not. So, IMO it should.

[tigger73]

Well I don't want to point out the obvious, but before you can have a product recall then you have to have a fix for the problem part being recalled.

At this stage I have not heard that there's a permanent solution to the DQ200 DSG issues (seems to be just a constant changing of parts).

So unless VW have a new/improved part that they're going to replace the existing part with, then there's no point in having a product recall.

Personally I think VWA has to get VW to engineer a solution that is going to work in Australian conditions (hot conditions with stop/start traffic). Until that's been done there's no point in recalling 1,000's of vehicles.

My 2c

[RoknRob]

A quick summary of the DSGs, and the failures they are most likely to experience, is perhaps in order.

DQ200 7-speed "dry clutch" DSG
This gearbox has had by far the largest number of issues with owners. The most common complaint relates to clutch slip. This gearbox has been recalled in Japan, Singapore and China for clutch pack and mechatronic fixes.
Application: Lower-powered vehicles, <= 250Nm.
Cars: Polo (TSI, TDI and GTI), Golf Mk6/Mk7 (77TSI, 90TSI, 103TSI, 118TSI, 77TDI), base Passat, some Skodas and Audis, etc
Failures (and fixes):

• Clutches may "shudder" and slip - this may be exacerbated in stop-start traffic. Fix: A number of revisions of the "clutch packs" have been issued by VW; many customers have had their clutch packs replaced under warranty.
• Mechatronic-related issues, such as rough clunky gear changes, and in the worst cases, failing to engage drive which may require the vehicle be towed. Fix: In some cases a simple turn-off/wait/turn-on can reset the system. The gearbox can also be "reset" using a series of operational steps (may require the VCDS diagnostic tool), and will then "re-learn" shift patterns as you drive. Worst-case, a new mechatronic unit may be required.

DQ250 6-speed "wet clutch" DSG
This gearbox is VW's first DSG. Earlier revisions (< 2008 or so) seem more troublesome; later boxes seem much better overall. The clutches tend to be fine; the only weak point is the mechatronic. This gearbox was the subject of a recall in the USA some years back (~2009?) for mechatronic issues, but has not been subject to any recalls or significant fixes since (that I am aware of).
Application: mid/high-powered vehicles, <= 350Nm
Cars: Golf Mk6/Mk7 (GTI, R, 103TDI, 110TDI), Passat TDI and V6 (inc CC), Scirocco R, some Skodas and Audis, etc
Failures (and fixes):

• False Neutrals: This issue is not particularly common, but does occur occasionally in some models (such as Golf R but not Golf GTI). Often experienced in 2nd gear and under cornering/acceleration, the engine will free-rev and the gearbox will appear to be in neutral. Fix: Try shifting into first and back into second; pull over and stop, then restart; engine off and on.
• Mechatronic-related issues, such as rough clunky gear changes, and in the worst cases, failing to engage drive which may require the vehicle be towed. Fix: In some cases a simple turn-off/wait/turn-on can reset the system. The gearbox can also be "reset" using a series of operational steps (may require the VCDS diagnostic tool), and will then "re-learn" shift patterns as you drive. Worst-case, a new mechatronic unit may be required.

DQ500 7-speed "wet clutch" DSG
This is VW's latest wet-clutch DSG, designed for high-power and high-torque applications. No-one's really talking about this gearbox in this thread.
Application: high-powered vehicles
Cars: Tiguan 155TSI (I believe), some Transporters, some high-powered Audis
Failures (and fixes): None that I'm aware of with any great frequency.

Excellent summary. Thanks for that.
I will add that while the DQ200 may not be PRONE to false neutrals, it can happen. Happened to me in almost the exact same circumstances you described for the DQ250.

[AdamD]

I will add that while the DQ200 may not be PRONE to false neutrals, it can happen. Happened to me in almost the exact same circumstances you described for the DQ250.

That's true, a few people on VWW have experienced the false neutral problem with the DQ200, although it does appear to be fairly unusual (certainly it's less likely to be a problem than the clutch packs and mechatronic issues with the same transmission).

[AdamD]

As an aside, a number of Golf 90TSI owners have experienced engine stalls when at a standstill (eg when at traffic lights, or stuck at an intersection). A software update was released by VW for the 90TSI engine in 2011, which has for the most part resolved that problem, but I don't believe that a recall was issued in this instance. If you do have a 2009-2011 90TSI and haven't had your car at a VW dealer for service in the last few years (unlikely, but there may be one or two out there), I'd advise you to take your car in and have the update applied, as the problem could constitute a safety issue. Note that this problem is unrelated to the DSG gearbox.

For more information on this issue, see the following thread: http://www.vwwatercooled.com/forums/...ing-41422.html

[Amalgam]

VW Australia's 'unofficial recall' could affect UK cars | Autocar

Now making the UK websites

[buddy03]

This is really getting ridiculous and becoming more of a media witch hunt. I mean VW already gave an indication that they might announce a recall next week. I don't see any point for Fairfax to publish another article bashing VW again.

Don't they think about VW owners who have not encountered problems but will lose thousands of dollars of resale value when they sell their car?

Faults that trashed a reputation

And another one

A lot of ground to make up for reluctant VW

[riffraff]

i thought this was interesting... The story behind VW's DQ200 voluntary recall

[Transporter]

This is really getting ridiculous and becoming more of a media witch hunt. I mean VW already gave an indication that they might announce a recall next week. I don't see any point for Fairfax to publish another article bashing VW again.

Don't they think about VW owners who have not encountered problems but will lose thousands of dollars of resale value when they sell their car?

Faults that trashed a reputation

And another one

A lot of ground to make up for reluctant VW

I think you're expecting too much; they just don't want to get any facts in the way of a good story, that's how they think. The VW car owners and reduced resale value, doesn't even come to their mind.

[brad]

I don't think it's the medias job to worry about resale values, etc.

Maybe VW should have thought about that rather than sitting on their hands.

I am fully aware that VWs core business is to sell new cars but part of that is having a good post-sale experience which includes good service in the workshop, reliable motoring & good retained value come trade-in time.

About the only upside of the depreciation on my Skoda is that it is worth so little that I'm gifting it to my daughter rather than trade-in.

[Sharkie]

This is really getting ridiculous and becoming more of a media witch hunt. I mean VW already gave an indication that they might announce a recall next week. I don't see any point for Fairfax to publish another article bashing VW again.

Don't they think about VW owners who have not encountered problems but will lose thousands of dollars of resale value when they sell their car?

Faults that trashed a reputation

And another one

A lot of ground to make up for reluctant VW

I think you're expecting too much; they just don't want to get any facts in the way of a good story, that's how they think. The VW car owners and reduced resale value, doesn't even come to their mind.

Both wrong .... Fairfax Media ran 1 article and asked VW to comment. VWA in their normal fashion refused to respond properly and then tried to retaliate against Fairfax by pulling all advertising across the group. VWA tried to outmuscle Fairfax and lost as obviously they do not yet understand the power of the press, the online media and the internet (including this forum).

Article upon article kept the fires boiling until VAG in Germany stepped in and made VWA respond. Even a full page add in the Saturday Mail in QLD today. Bet you some heads are going to roll over this .....

This hurt VW bad and unfortunately also those who own VWs (myself included). It is all due to VWA and their arrogance thinking they can take on the press and the owners who have suffered enough. Had they handled this better, the world would hardly have noticed, thanks to VWA and not the press its a mess.

[2k4s]

A quick summary of the DSGs, and the failures they are most likely to experience, is perhaps in order.

DQ200 7-speed "dry clutch" DSG
This gearbox has had by far the largest number of issues with owners. The most common complaint relates to clutch slip. This gearbox has been recalled in Japan, Singapore and China for clutch pack and mechatronic fixes.
Application: Lower-powered vehicles, <= 250Nm.
Cars: Polo (TSI, TDI and GTI), Golf Mk6/Mk7 (77TSI, 90TSI, 103TSI, 118TSI, 77TDI), base Passat, some Skodas and Audis, etc
Failures (and fixes):

• Clutches may "shudder" and slip - this may be exacerbated in stop-start traffic. Fix: A number of revisions of the "clutch packs" have been issued by VW; many customers have had their clutch packs replaced under warranty.
• Mechatronic-related issues, such as rough clunky gear changes, and in the worst cases, failing to engage drive which may require the vehicle be towed. Fix: In some cases a simple turn-off/wait/turn-on can reset the system. The gearbox can also be "reset" using a series of operational steps (may require the VCDS diagnostic tool), and will then "re-learn" shift patterns as you drive. Worst-case, a new mechatronic unit may be required.

DQ250 6-speed "wet clutch" DSG
This gearbox is VW's first DSG. Earlier revisions (< 2008 or so) seem more troublesome; later boxes seem much better overall. The clutches tend to be fine; the only weak point is the mechatronic. This gearbox was the subject of a recall in the USA some years back (~2009?) for mechatronic issues, but has not been subject to any recalls or significant fixes since (that I am aware of).
Application: mid/high-powered vehicles, <= 350Nm
Cars: Golf Mk6/Mk7 (GTI, R, 103TDI, 110TDI), Passat TDI and V6 (inc CC), Scirocco R, some Skodas and Audis, etc
Failures (and fixes):

• False Neutrals: This issue is not particularly common, but does occur occasionally in some models (such as Golf R but not Golf GTI). Often experienced in 2nd gear and under cornering/acceleration, the engine will free-rev and the gearbox will appear to be in neutral. Fix: Try shifting into first and back into second; pull over and stop, then restart; engine off and on.
• Mechatronic-related issues, such as rough clunky gear changes, and in the worst cases, failing to engage drive which may require the vehicle be towed. Fix: In some cases a simple turn-off/wait/turn-on can reset the system. The gearbox can also be "reset" using a series of operational steps (may require the VCDS diagnostic tool), and will then "re-learn" shift patterns as you drive. Worst-case, a new mechatronic unit may be required.

DQ500 7-speed "wet clutch" DSG
This is VW's latest wet-clutch DSG, designed for high-power and high-torque applications. No-one's really talking about this gearbox in this thread.
Application: high-powered vehicles
Cars: Tiguan 155TSI (I believe), some Transporters, some high-powered Audis
Failures (and fixes): None that I'm aware of with any great frequency.

Any idea if the Mk5 GTI's also have the DQ250 DSGs, and are prone to the malfunctions? So frustrating that neither VW or the media are not being specific!

[alexaescht]

DSG woes in The Age

DQ500 7-speed "wet clutch" DSG
This is VW's latest wet-clutch DSG, designed for high-power and high-torque applications. No-one's really talking about this gearbox in this thread.
Application: high-powered vehicles
Cars: Tiguan 155TSI (I believe), some Transporters, some high-powered Audis
Failures (and fixes): None that I'm aware of with any great frequency.

The TDI Tiguan also uses the DQ500

[brimway]

Sure, the media have a track record in embellishing the story to make it juicier, but, VGA have had ample warnings and time to act on this.

Don't shoot the messenger.

This is really getting ridiculous and becoming more of a media witch hunt. I mean VW already gave an indication that they might announce a recall next week. I don't see any point for Fairfax to publish another article bashing VW again.

Don't they think about VW owners who have not encountered problems but will lose thousands of dollars of resale value when they sell their car?

Faults that trashed a reputation

And another one

A lot of ground to make up for reluctant VW