DSG woes in The Age

[mythik]

I'm trying to find out if the powerdown in gear on a manual would effectively stop the car, quickly

no. it would behave exactly the same as deceleration fuel cutoff when you lift your foot off the accelerator at speed and the engine is driven by the drivetrain. it will slow down, slowly. disengaging the gear wil allow an intertial coast. either way you are not stopping quickly like described.

[Tob35]

Re: DSG woes in The Age

I'm trying to find out if the powerdown in gear on a manual would effectively stop the car, quickly

Wouldn't you push the clutch in and disengage the power train?

[cmrtig]

I'm trying to find out if the powerdown in gear on a manual would effectively stop the car, quickly

Who cares. If you can be objective for just one second you have to admit that it was most likely the truck driver's fault. You and others are so angry that you makeup anything to blame the car! Leave it alone for now and wait for the coroners report!

[Transporter]

Leave alone and wait for the coroners report!

I agree with that. When the accident happens, people often reach for the lies to shift the blame, and since they can't blame the road - the one always have to drive to conditions, that's the law, right? So, only what is left to blame is the other party or the car.

[muli]

I ran out off diesel in a BT50 few years ago and it just sorta went more quieter than normal but really it was just like slowing down as if I had lifted off the throttle, obviously not knowing what would happen I put the car in neutral. Honestly unless you looked at the revs one wouldn't know.

It was on the m1 about 2mins from a servo..

[golfandtiguan]

Appears I was ninja'd

I'm trying to find out if the powerdown in gear on a manual would effectively stop the car, quickly

In general, cut the power or energy to most moving items, friction and physics will stop it.

Yes, a car in gear will eventually come to a stop. Speed will play a part, and for a little while, the speed/velocity from the rotating wheels will push the energy back through the drivetrain, gearbox, and back to the engine, overpowering the engine compression. Eventually, when the car slows enough the compression of the engine will slow the car enough that it 'seizes' and the car will 'violently halt'

Now, this assumes that no other intervention is made. If you were to down-change, you run the risk of a big compression lock, possibly violently cracking the car sideways.

With the greatest respect and appreciation for your experience, I appreciate 3 seconds is not a lot of time, but I believe my first instinct would be to hit the clutch and get the thing out of gear.

(As for qualified - no I'm not. As for knowledgeable, yes. I've spent 15+ years as a Race Engineer and Lead Data Analyst - I've heard many stories from Drivers, only to disprove it with data and/or vehicle dynamics)

[wai]

Now I know it is probably a much simpler issue, but Chrysler/Fiat have just initiated a recall of Jeep Patriot and Jeep Compass vehicles because the fuel transfer tube is defective which can lead to a restricted fuel flow under some circumstances causing the engine to stall.

The Statement of Hazard is "If the vehicle stalls unexpectedly, this can pose a safety hazard to the driver and other road users.".

So it comes down to providing information to show that it is a fault with the vehicle that causes the VW vehicles to lose power/speed. There is a precedent set now, so it is now a case of showing that this sudden loss in speed is a result of a failure of something which VW is responsible for.

No more heresay. It has to be what is considered as evidence. The fact that a vehicle loses power does not mean it is a VW design fault. People with the problem need to report the matter to VW (not the dealer), clearly stating the problem, the circumstances under which it occurred, etc. This needs to be in writing, and preferable by registered post where you request a signed receipt. The person with the complaint should then CC the information to the Department of Infrastructure and Transport, again preferably by registered post requesting a signed receipt.

Registered letters do cost, but I don't think that owners are going to mind the $7.20 it will cost for the registered letters.

Absolutely no point in writing to the newspapers or going to online sites and trying to make a noise. It MUST be in writing by registered post, and a CC sent to the Department of Infrastructure and Transport.

So it can be done, but it does require jumping through hoops along the way. We have a name to whom to send the registered letter at VW.

[mythik]

Can anyone who is a mechanic or highly knowledgeable confirm this? Based on my experience with manuals, many years ago, the braking effect would be very large.

I'm a master technician.

[cmrtig]

Now I know it is probably a much simpler issue, but Chrysler/Fiat have just initiated a recall of Jeep Patriot and Jeep Compass vehicles because the fuel transfer tube is defective which can lead to a restricted fuel flow under some circumstances causing the engine to stall.

The Statement of Hazard is "If the vehicle stalls unexpectedly, this can pose a safety hazard to the driver and other road users.".

So it comes down to providing information to show that it is a fault with the vehicle that causes the VW vehicles to lose power/speed. There is a precedent set now, so it is now a case of showing that this sudden loss in speed is a result of a failure of something which VW is responsible for.

No more heresay. It has to be what is considered as evidence. The fact that a vehicle loses power does not mean it is a VW design fault. People with the problem need to report the matter to VW (not the dealer), clearly stating the problem, the circumstances under which it occurred, etc. This needs to be in writing, and preferable by registered post where you request a signed receipt. The person with the complaint should then CC the information to the Department of Infrastructure and Transport, again preferably by registered post requesting a signed receipt.

Registered letters do cost, but I don't think that owners are going to mind the $7.20 it will cost for the registered letters.

Absolutely no point in writing to the newspapers or going to online sites and trying to make a noise. It MUST be in writing by registered post, and a CC sent to the Department of Infrastructure and Transport.

So it can be done, but it does require jumping through hoops along the way. We have a name to whom to send the registered letter at VW.

Best piece of advice thus far. Let the relevant authority decide and keep it out of the hands of fairfax.

[cmrtig]

Ok so here's the scenario:

1. Car dies/shuts down
2. Driver hits brakes in panic
3. Car slows rapidly until it 'seizes' and 'violently halts' as described above.

Mods I think it is time to step in! This is beyond a joke!!!!

[RoknRob]

Re: DSG woes in The Age

I agree with that. When the accident happens, people often reach for the lies to shift the blame, and since they can't blame the road - the one always have to drive to conditions, that's the law, right? So, only what is left to blame is the other party or the car.

Yes, the coroner's case should be considered a separate issue.

But, unfortunately for VW, it has highlighted the fact that there are lots more people than we thought with potentially dangerous cars.

VW is in a difficult position now, since if they were to implement a recall, it might be perceived as an admission of guilt - if not by the coroner, then definitely by the lawyers!

Which explains their strategy now. "Feel free to come on in for an inspection, if you want".

The onus, back on the consumer....

[cmrtig]

What the hell is your problem? Work for VW?

No but I think you work for Toyota. Your question is irrelevant and has been answered about 100 times. I believe your are intent on damaging the resale of VWs because you are a selfish and angry old man!

[mythik]

Mods I think it is time to step in! This is beyond a joke!!!!

maybe not. I see the aforementioned number 2 (quite apt) as a root cause. irrespective of any reason for a car to die. if you panic and do something retarded, results may vary.

not excusing the issue. VW need to fix the DSG 7 speeds by replacing them with 6 speed wet clutch variants. isn't that what this thread is about!?

[tonymy01]

Re: DSG woes in The Age

Can anyone who is a mechanic or highly knowledgeable confirm this? Based on my experience with manuals, many years ago, the braking effect would be very large.

If you were in first or second gear, yes, but not in top gear. As was already said, when you take your foot off the accelerator in a manual modern car, fuel and spark are completely shut off, exactly the same thing as if the engine died. Just look at the fuel consumption (instantaneous) when coasting, it goes to 0. In top gear, even 5th or fourth, the engine is barely any load on the drive train (or look at it the other way, the drive train gearing is so tall it is rapidly turning the engine). Result= gradual coast.
Your speculations are becoming ludicrous now.

Sent from my GT-N7105 using Tapatalk 4 Beta

[golfandtiguan]

• Car dies/shuts down
• Driver hits brakes in panic
• Car slows rapidly until it 'seizes' and 'violently halts' as described above.

Respectfully - why hit the brakes? To stop the car, presumably.

What happened? Car stopped! Nett result = behaved as expected and desired.
As the car started to 'stall', you hit the clutch (like coming to the lights), and there's no violent stop.

And yes, back on topic - I hope VW can sort out this massive issue. I'm hoping once they have a genuine (reliable) fix, the cars will be recalled.