Golf GTI -v- Toyota FT86

[SilvrFoxX]

It won't be 12K , that was an exaggeration, however what will happen is the manufacturer will release the STI version and the impact to values will be affected.. All power to you nothing wrong with your choice just struggle with the comparison. Having owned a 2 litre Subaru Liberty I know what traits are and hope the RWD and drive keep everyone excited cause the performance will soon be an issue

[nat225]

i bought a toyota rav4 $36k in 2001, sold it $12k with 125,000km on the clock. the rav4 was popular, but it did not have the waiting list of 12 months or any limited production quota.

saying the 86 will go as low as $12k with 15k on the clock is not a smart opinion, but since it is a VW forum, anyone can say what ever gets him/her a good night sleep believing his/her VW is the best

[GolfVI]

It won't be 12K , that was an exaggeration, however what will happen is the manufacturer will release the STI version and the impact to values will be affected.. All power to you nothing wrong with your choice just struggle with the comparison. Having owned a 2 litre Subaru Liberty I know what traits are and hope the RWD and drive keep everyone excited cause the performance will soon be an issue

Not intending to sound smart and hope I am not going to offend you here but have you actually done any research on the 86? The engine is new, it has little in common with an N/A Subaru Imprezza or Liberty... other than that it is a boxer

86 - 1/4 mile - 14.7.. what does a GTI do? 14.5? I have read as slow as 15.1.. I'm not saying the GTI is slower, it would be faster but not by a lot.

Wakefield times.. Stock 86 GTS does a 1:13 (1:16 in the wet)... don't know what a GTI does but bet it's not much faster.

I'm not trying to get into a debate here.. it just seems a lot of people seem to claim performance is the cars weak point... but how many other cars in the same price range are as quick? They start at 29k for the base model.. you are talking Golf TSI money..

[WhiteJames]

Power

It's refreshing to know that the FT86/BRZ can be revved out without going stupidly fast ... it provides greater driver engagement for longer. What the stats don't show on paper is that the Golf GTI is the faster car on the move esp. with added load and esp. uphill where you want that instand torque hit at times. The FT86/BRZ have to be kept up higher in the rev range. The FT86/BRZ counter with a linear power band & greater throttle control, rather than relying on the vageries of a turbo spooling up. The difference between the old WRX motor and FT86/BRZ motor is a bit like comparing the EA888 in the Golf GTI and EA113 in the SiroccoR/Golf R. Different in some regards, the same in other regards. Thing with FT86/BRZ is that you'd want to take it out on a skin pan day a few times a year ... perhaps a track/driver training day too. With the Golf GTI, not a lot of desire to do the same. Interested to hear why some went with the FT86 and not the BRZ and vice versa.
Cheers.
WJ

[SilvrFoxX]

i bought a toyota rav4 $36k in 2001, sold it $12k with 125,000km on the clock. the rav4 was popular, but it did not have the waiting list of 12 months or any limited production quota.

saying the 86 will go as low as $12k with 15k on the clock is not a smart opinion, but since it is a VW forum, anyone can say what ever gets him/her a good night sleep believing his/her VW is the best

I am not sure anyone here has said as much, if that is your interpretation then there is not a lot I can do about that. Time will be the judge..

As for waiting lists, the GTI and R had just as long waits and still do.. bringing in a Rav 4 to the conversation is even more bewildering.

Sleeping through the night.. no issue

Not intending to sound smart and hope I am not going to offend you here but have you actually done any research on the 86? The engine is new, it has little in common with an N/A Subaru Imprezza or Liberty... other than that it is a boxer

86 - 1/4 mile - 14.7.. what does a GTI do? 14.5? I have read as slow as 15.1.. I'm not saying the GTI is slower, it would be faster but not by a lot.

Wakefield times.. Stock 86 GTS does a 1:13 (1:16 in the wet)... don't know what a GTI does but bet it's not much faster.

I'm not trying to get into a debate here.. it just seems a lot of people seem to claim performance is the cars weak point... but how many other cars in the same price range are as quick? They start at 29k for the base model.. you are talking Golf TSI money..

Yes I have read all the hype aand heard all the views that because toyota have thrown some injection technology in that a 2 litre engine eeks out an extra 26KW meh.. There is nothing under 3000 rpm and you have to wring its neck to get the performace .. again if you like rotaries then the lack of torque and high end performance then this is the car for you.

As per my previous posts the comparison to a torquey turbo charged German car is just plain silly unless of course you are having an internal conflict in which you want to chase the new shiny toy and leave the car you have. It is not a question how fast it goes iether at the top end or around corners at 8/10ths it is more about useable power delivery when you need it.

I have had a boxer engine and even if you get the turbo unit or the 6 you really have to kick it in the guts and have a petrol station close by.

[Candyman]

The difference is that the GTI by nature can be easily and cheaply tuned to deliver considerable more power and torque delivering a far more effective and enjoyable drive, daily

The 86 as an NA car cannot

Put aside the nicer creature comforts of the GTI ofcourse

Personally, I won't go back to a single axle drive car as my daily.

[GolfVI]

I am not sure anyone here has said as much, if that is your interpretation then there is not a lot I can do about that. Time will be the judge..

As for waiting lists, the GTI and R had just as long waits and still do.. bringing in a Rav 4 to the conversation is even more bewildering.

Sleeping through the night.. no issue



Yes I have read all the hype aand heard all the views that because toyota have thrown some injection technology in that a 2 litre engine eeks out an extra 26KW meh.. There is nothing under 3000 rpm and you have to wring its neck to get the performace .. again if you like rotaries then the lack of torque and high end performance then this is the car for you.

As per my previous posts the comparison to a torquey turbo charged German car is just plain silly unless of course you are having an internal conflict in which you want to chase the new shiny toy and leave the car you have. It is not a question how fast it goes iether at the top end or around corners at 8/10ths it is more about useable power delivery when you need it.

I have had a boxer engine and even if you get the turbo unit or the 6 you really have to kick it in the guts and have a petrol station close by.

Most of the world disagree with you on this point.. It's being compared to the Scirocco R, Porsche Cayman, WRX, let alone the GTi.. and the funny thing is, it's winning. I'm sure a lot of that is media hype, I am not even saying it's a better car than a Golf GTI... but you are making out like it is not even a worthy competitor... and you are definitely wrong. : )

I'm not expecting it to be fast.. I have a second car that would make your Golf R look like a push bike.. I don't need to prove anything in performance, I just want a fun traffic car that is engaging to drive.. and for me, at this present time, the 86GTS makes more sense (and it would seem the general population agree with me here given they are a 1.5 year + wait)... at least until the Mk7 is here, then I might consider selling the 86GTS and getting a GTI.

[SilvrFoxX]

If you can believe the hype... I am not a hater just not a believer.. If you are then that is great and enjoy. My point all along has been the comparison to the GTI ( and the amusing list of others) makes no sense which is not a case of wrong or right.

[WhiteJames]

Easily tuning a Golf GTI is giving it something it doesn't need ... more power ... changing the balance of the power/handling mix. Both GTI and Golf R/Sirocco R have their steering corrupted by being FWD biased (Golf R is FWD sending power rearwards over 40kph). The steering in the twins is by comparison RAW. The thrill of driving involves corners, balance and driver feedback, not just straight line power. Vehicles today are far too fast and generally far to heavy than they need to be.

I think I'm leaning towards the Subaru as Wheels Mag is saying that the FT86 GT tends to wash out the front too easily around corners in the wet with the softer front end. I like the FT86 downhill with softer suspension, but uphill, the front end tends to lift its skirt under power out of corners. BRZ felt better going uphills in this regard.

Cheers.
WJ

[Candyman]

Easily tuning a Golf GTI is giving it something it doesn't need ... more power ... changing the balance of the power/handling mix.

Cheers.
WJ

That has to be the most ridiculous comment I have seen on any forum this year

Still, I shouldn't be surprised

A stock GTI is dumbed down by the manufacturer. A good tune delivers a car that drives as it should

Sure, to bogans with a small **** who want to prove something, more power and torque is wasted but to most of us with brain matter it is a huge gain.

Perhaps that is why WJ likes an 86.

Edit - never mind, just realized I replied to a WJ post

Cheers
CM

[MACCAA]

(Golf R is FWD sending power rearwards over 40kph).

Cheers.
WJ

Really???That ain't how Haldex works actually.....

[WhiteJames]

I think that the FT86 is a bit more like the first setup I had on the old Golf MKV ... the softer Eibach Prokit/Koni FSD + H&R swaybars had the GTI leaning heavier on the outside front corner during cornering. Comfie ride, but front tyre sidewall would still be overworked. The FT86 is not nearly as bad with lower CoG. I fixed the heavier leaning front of the old GTI by adding extra spring & damping rate esp. at front with KW V3 set on full soft ... handled more akin to the Subaru BRZ despite obvious differences. Been watching this youtube.com video looking at lean angles of the Toyota FT86 compared to the Sirocco R. FT86 does move around a bit in the softer front end in relative terms. Sirocco R is the pick for handling in the VW stable and isn't too far behind the twins for sitting flat during cornering. See video:

Toyota GT 86 V/S BMW 120i, Mazda Roadster, VW Scirocco [OFFICIAL VIDEO] - YouTube

Cheers.
WJ

[Tobes_WIR35]

My point all along had been why compare two completely different cars? Can't we just be content with both being good cars with entirely different characteristics?

[SilvrFoxX]

Because the GTI doesn't run on Prius tyres

[Candyman]

My point all along had been why compare two completely different cars? Can't we just be content with both being good cars with entirely different characteristics?

The mysteries of WJ's mind amazes all of us.

Stay tuned (unless you own an 86, in which case there is no point being tuned)