Misdiagnosis by dealer - what next?

[kaanage]

My car was diagnosed as having a failing CV joint by the service department of a VW dealer as I was experiencing a "clunk" when getting on or off throttle (no noise at all under brakes or over bumps).
I was also charged for this investigation as they claimed my warranty was voided by having used the car on a race track with modified suspension (Bilstein Cup Kit).

Now a mechanic that I know and trust has looked at car and determined that the CV joints are fine and is looking into the engine mounts (my initial thought) and suspension components as the noise source.

My question is that if it does turn out to be something other than a CV joint (and I'm almost certain that this will be the case), can I recoup the cost of the faulty diagnosis from the dealer?

If not, is it reasonable for me to name and shame the dealer?

[djorkboy]

Name and shame if you see fit but don't do like some muppet did the other week and rant and rave then send an email to the dealer notifying them of his post. The dealers' legal team will be in touch with the forum admins in an instant demanding they remove the post, and the forum admins pretty much have to comply.

This is a similar situation to me, a mechanic forgot to put a bolt back after the clutch change and last week the engine tried to fall out, cost me $900 to fix. But if I chase the mechanic who screwed up for the cost is it going to cost me more than $900 in time, fees and effort to recoup? Should I chase him anyway just on principle?

It sucks that regardless of whether you get your money back you will always have to wear the time and strain of the whole event.

[wai]

My car was diagnosed as having a failing CV joint by the service department of a VW dealer as I was experiencing a "clunk" when getting on or off throttle (no noise at all under brakes or over bumps).
I was also charged for this investigation as they claimed my warranty was voided by having used the car on a race track with modified suspension (Bilstein Cup Kit).

First thing is what does VW say about it? I take it that the warranty is still the original VW warranty and not any dealer extended warranty. You may have recourse here at little cost.

The other thing is that you cannot diagnose a CV joint on the way out just because there is a clunk. If there are other checks to see of the CV joints are on the way out.

Now a mechanic that I know and trust has looked at car and determined that the CV joints are fine and is looking into the engine mounts (my initial thought) and suspension components as the noise source.

My question is that if it does turn out to be something other than a CV joint (and I'm almost certain that this will be the case), can I recoup the cost of the faulty diagnosis from the dealer?

Maybe if they gave you this and the reason they claimed the warranty was void. Even here, if they want to play nasty, then they can make it such that you have to go through the courts and then you will lose even if you win.

The thing is that you need to get something in writing from VW that says your warranty is void as it is VW who issue the warranty. This does not cost you and then you can decide whether you want to spend the additional money.

[Transporter]

It is the tough one, mate.
You could name the dealer (there is nothing to shame them) in your first post. They gave you their diagnosis and you think it is something else, that's fair enough. But the common sense is telling me, since you had your suspension worked on by somebody else than VW dealer, using aftermarket parts and now having the noises from the suspension, I would say you will have a tough job to blame them.

I would let them replace the CV Joints, told them that I've mark them well and asked for them to be returned to me. Just in case it was something else.

[Buller_Scott]

are there any lawyers on watercooled? i just ask because what is the law regarding personal opinions by consumers, on internet forums?

you know... at the company i used to work at, there was a christmas party. one of the managers (i use that word loosely), who was coked up and drunk, told someone in her team who was sober and driving "you're driving me home tonight".

his response: "i cant! you live in pakenham and i live in werribee"
she: "if you dont drive me home, you're fired on monday"

he didnt end up driving her home. on monday afternoon, he was fired. word is that the legal team stepped in and made the whole thing "go away". it's amazing what lawyers will have you believe, and the manner in which they'll bully you under the banner of "the law".

so yeah. any lawyers about? because apparently you're not allowed to voice an opinion that isnt positive, on the internet?

you've paid for a diagnosis to be done, and that diagnosis was incorrect... apparently you're breaching the law by telling colleagues of yours just WHO it was that gave you this fcked up diagnosis in the first place? the law is such that their right to keep on charging people for mechanical malpractice must be protected?

[Transporter]

Yeh mate, just don't speculate too much
So far we know that; it was just diagnose and the car had aftermarket suspension fitted (most likely not the dealer job) and that's the point where they would wipe their hands clean.

He can name the dealer and there is nothing to shame. Anybody can give the wrong diagnose, hell, even doctors do. We're all humans and humans make mistakes and as far as I know the computers too.

[mikinoz]

I was also charged for this investigation as they claimed my warranty was voided by having used the car on a race track with modified suspension (Bilstein Cup Kit).

Request proof of this car being on a race track and also there needs to be proof that the modifications on your car caused the issue that they are claiming is not warrantable. ie. Not working indicator is not related to a different muffler.

You need to request a letter where they state the warranty is void, and on which specific components. If they won't provide this then they should honour the warranty.

And finally, I would also request a second opinion from another dealer (without mentioning the first dealer experience).

[The_Hawk]

When it comes to naming a dealer/person you have had a bad experience there is nothing wrong with that in itself, it's how you do it that is a problem. Ranting and raving and calling them names and making wild speculation is another thing altogether.

In this case, naming the dealer in the first post wouldn't have been an issue, you have outlined what has happened, voices your dissatisfaction and asked for advice. There has even been some great responses.

While I understand cars can be a very emotional topic, especially for our self confessed car nuts like us, when you act a fool and hurl abuse at a business it's probably going to get deleted.

[kaanage]

Emotional? I thought I was going about this in a pretty measured manner.

I'm not about to BS about the car having been tracked - I've done it and won't lie about it. I am concerned that the dealer is taking the easy way out with all of this since the diagnosis form also stated that since the suspension had been modified, they would not warranty any of it (reasonable) or any parts attached to it (questionable IMO) including the gearbox (and by inference, any of the drive train).

wai, you have stated

The other thing is that you cannot diagnose a CV joint on the way out just because there is a clunk. If there are other checks to see of the CV joints are on the way out.

That's all and well but the dealer diagnosed the CV joint as being the source of the clunking sound. Even if one of the CV joints was worn but making no noise (btw my mechanic informs me that there is absolutely nothing wrong with any of them), the diagnosis is still incorrect as I asked them to investigate the noise and the CV joint was the diagnosis.

Transporter, you stated

I would let them replace the CV Joints, told them that I've mark them well and asked for them to be returned to me.

At $300 each, I'm not about to wear the cost if I can avoid it.

My mechanic has narrowed it down to the right (fluid dampened) engine mount - he has found a small amount of play here (appropriate, given that the noise is not major) and no other problems with the car at all. The service staff at the dealer have failed to call me back after I have left them 2 messages to discuss this further so I may well become emotional.

[The_Hawk]

Emotional? I thought I was going about this in a pretty measured manner.

Sorry for the misunderstanding, that wasn't a poke at you at all, more a general response to why some posts get removed.

Your approach is all but the poster for how things should be done!

[buzuki]

Its hard to flame a dealer for misdiagnosis when you yet to have it properly diagnosed/repaired elsewhere. When your problem is fixed and it wasnt the cv then go ahead and complain.

[Transporter]

Its hard to flame a dealer for misdiagnosis when you yet to have it properly diagnosed/repaired elsewhere. When your problem is fixed and it wasnt the cv then go ahead and complain.

That's the right advice.
After you prove that the dealer diagnose was incorrect, then you have more grounds to stand on, but again you had aftermarket components fitted, so they could use that as an excuse, since you've changed the original product's (your car) specifications.

It would be all different if the car was stock standard.

I'm not saying that the following should apply to your case but,
IMO, the correct way to diagnose the car that was modified, is, to return it into the original condition (undo the modifications) and then diagnose the car.

[kaanage]

Its hard to flame a dealer for misdiagnosis when you yet to have it properly diagnosed/repaired elsewhere. When your problem is fixed and it wasnt the cv then go ahead and complain.

That's why I'm not naming/blaming/flaming..yet. (ok a bit of blaming but not very damaging without the naming)

And it'd be nice if the dealer service staff were able to call me back in the 4 business hours after I contacted them so I can ask what they will do if I get the engine mount changed at my own expense and it fixes the problem.

That's the right advice.
After you prove that the dealer diagnose was incorrect, then you have more grounds to stand on, but again you had aftermarket components fitted, so they could use that as an excuse, since you've changed the original product's (your car) specifications.

It would be all different if the car was stock standard.

I'm not saying that the following should apply to your case but,
IMO, the correct way to diagnose the car that was modified, is, to return it into the original condition (undo the modifications) and then diagnose the car.

I'm just disappointed that I've had to pay for what seems likely to be a misdiagnosis on a car that is still technically under warranty. I'll also ask them if they will fix the car under warranty if I get the cup kit (just a set of springs and matched dampers, in any case) changed back to stock.

I also find it hard to imagine how a cup kit can damage either an engine mount or a CV joint

[The_Hawk]

I'll also ask them if they will fix the car under warranty if I get the cup kit (just a set of springs and matched dampers, in any case) changed back to stock.

I also find it hard to imagine how a cup kit can damage either an engine mount or a CV joint

Probably not since they know it's been changed. Modification + factory warranty can always bit pain. Some dealers will play very nice, espdecially if you tell them what you are doing upfront, it can be a good idea to talk to your local dealer before any upgrades so you know what they are going to cover and not. I have even heard tell that some will do the upgrades for you AND cover them under warranty... although YMMV.

*Technically* they have to be able to draw a line from what is non standard to what has caused the problem to deny a claim, and while I'm not saying they are maliciously trying to weasel out of cover, since they have to do the work the default answer can always be "sorry not covered" and many people will likely just wear it.


Bottom line, go talk to them. Ask if they can list which components they wont cover (and why) as well as discuss your own findings and concerns. Keep some detailed notes about who/when/where and if you are still not happy with the outcome try elsewhere or use that information to raise the issue to a higher power.

[Ben J]

Change to stock suspension and take it to another dealer, get it fixed under warrenty, go back to first dealer and show that you've had it fixed (don't mention under warrenty at another dealer) and that their original diagnosis was wrong and ask for money back? Depends what it's going to cost you to fix if it will be worth the effort. Working in a dealership (albeit parts, not in service) I do hear about much smaller things they void warrentys for. Like finding grass lodged up in places there shouldnt be grass unless the car was taken off road.... for 4 wheel drives and such.