Petrol Vs. Diesel

[team_v]

So i am getting the Tig this year and have test-driven both the TDI (103kw) and the base TSI (125kw) at the austral open night on Monday.

Whilst this allayed all of my worries about the car and how it drives, it has produced a problem in that i am now not sure whether to go petrol or diesel.

Both cars will be chipped so the TSI goes to 190kw and the TDI goes to 125kw.
This also gives the TSI access to a greater amount of torque over a larger rev range than the diesel.

Insurance and Rego costs are the same so the only differences i could find were the price of fuel including diesel conditioner (favours diesel by $300 a year), servicing (favours petrol by $300 up to 180,000km) and the initial outlay (about 2600 off the list price).
After 9-10 years the current difference in diesel (7.4l/100km) vs pulp (9.1l/100km) prices will have equalled out the total difference so that is a bit of a help in my decission.

The major concern i have is that we have apparently reached peak oil and the price of petrol is almost certain to rise. As such, diesel looks to be the cheaper/more practical alternative in the long run.

But then the fun factor comes into it, the 125TSI goes like nothing i have ever driven. The force pushing you back into your seat is exhilirating. the 103TDI was more sedate, not much push but it got you where you needed to be.

I will be driving most of the time in Brisbane, maybe a few trips to the Gold Coast.
Plan to keep the car until it dies in 20 or more years.



Does anyone have any more thing's i should consider before making my decission.
The heart says 125TSI ( to be 190) but the brain/voice of reason says 103TDI (to be 125)
At the moment I am leaning more towards the 125TSI (190).

Please don't turn this into a *****fight, i just want to know what made you go diesel or petrol and if you have any info that will help me make my choice.

[DeanB]

My sister chose the diesel path .... purely based on how many km's you could get on a tank of fuel. They go off-road a bit and my bro-in-law is from Perth so they drive all the way across Oz to visit his family and take it bush over there.

[team_v]

Thanks for the info Dean.

The main push for diesel is the price, future availability, current availability when not in a big city and the fuel consumption.

Any more info from other people would be greatly appreciated too.

[neil]

Something people don't think much off is the safety aspect of diesel over petrol.
A serious accident which would you prefer to be sitting on, highly flammable
Petrol or less flammable diesel.

How many times do we see tv footage of someone at a service station filling
up and static electricity causing a fire.

I know it doesn't happen often but there's always the risk.

[Sharkie]

If you like the way the TSI drives, buy it as you will regret buying the diesel every time in the future when you need a bit of performance and enjoyment and its not there ......

On average people spend 2 hours a day in their cars, why spend somewhere that is less pleasant than it could be ......

Costs and price differences are just money and it comes and goes over time ......

I enjoy our TSI and will never .... EVER .... change it for a diesel truck.....

[team_v]

Something people don't think much off is the safety aspect of diesel over petrol.
A serious accident which would you prefer to be sitting on, highly flammable
Petrol or less flammable diesel.

How many times do we see tv footage of someone at a service station filling
up and static electricity causing a fire.

I know it doesn't happen often but there's always the risk.

To be honest i never thought of diesel vs petrol in asafety aspect.
Thanks for poitning that out.

Any more input people?

[team_v]

If you like the way the TSI drives, buy it as you will regret buying the diesel every time in the future when you need a bit of performance and enjoyment and its not there ......

On average people spend 2 hours a day in their cars, why spend somewhere that is less pleasant than it could be ......

Costs and price differences are just money and it comes and goes over time ......

I enjoy our TSI and will never .... EVER .... change it for a diesel truck.....

Thanks for the input Sharkie.You left before i got a chance to say hi at the Austral night.
Spotted the Silver 190 on RS4's at the bottom of the drive though.

I liked the way the stock 125 drove, so i was thinking the 190 would be aworld ahead of that.
However i would be chipping the TDI to 125kw anyway so i am a bit torn.

In the end the only real consideration is whether pulp/diesel will be a better alternative in the near future with peak oil being reached.

However that is all based on speculation so i guess i should just go with what i enjoy and suffer the consequences / enjoy the benefits as they come.

[Sharkie]

Thanks for the input Sharkie.You left before i got a chance to say hi at the Austral night.
Spotted the Silver 190 on RS4's at the bottom of the drive though.

I liked the way the stock 125 drove, so i was thinking the 190 would be aworld ahead of that.
However i would be chipping the TDI to 125kw anyway so i am a bit torn.

In the end the only real consideration is whether pulp/diesel will be a better alternative in the near future with peak oil being reached.

However that is all based on speculation so i guess i should just go with what i enjoy and suffer the consequences / enjoy the benefits as they come.

My point is just that, buy the 1 that you enjoy driving the most. If it is the TSI buy that, if the TDI then buy that. Do not worry about costs, focus on what is going to put a smile on your face everytime you drive it, whatever that may be.

[team_v]

My point is just that, buy the 1 that you enjoy driving the most. If it is the TSI buy that, if the TDI then buy that. Do not worry about costs, focus on what is going to put a smile on your face everytime you drive it, whatever that may be.

That is what i was thinking at first.
Couldn't stop grinning after giving the 125 a boot-full.

Then drove the TDI and the voice of reason kept chipping away at my resolve knowing i would probably get speeding fines and 13l/100km etc.

But like you said, the best bet is to get what i enjoy and for me the 125 was more enjoyable.
If all else fails, i can just take a jerry can on trips where i don't know if fuel will be available.

Thanks for your help so far guys, hopefully it keeps coming.

[Greg Roles]

I plan to keep my VW, and it made buying a diesel a good choice. The basic "engine" ( pistons, rings bearings etc ) will last a lot longer than a petrol, and the fuel costs into the future will definately be less. Add to that the potential to go bio if we end up all Mad Max, and well I was sold. But then in the lighter golf platform, the differences appear less than they would in a Tig.

The big downside: in my tinkering I've found the sheer amount of oil blowby in the high compression diesels mixed with the ever increasing EGR exhaust recycling adds up to a ton of sooty oily sludge in the TDI inlet. This WILL cause problems as modern diesels enter the 100k plus range, with EGR valves and the associated EGR throttle flap mechs having already failed in a few circumstances, at a $1k price tag per time. This slowly blocks up your inlet, and power and economy are going to drop accordingly.

Then there's the DPF. It's GOING to eventually clog, and it appears 150k is the suggested typical lifesapn. VW quote $5500 for a new DPF. Crazy money.

The long block in a diesel is going to last longer, but the new emission controls on the TDI most certainly won't. I'd factor that in.

All said and done, despite those hiccups, I'm not going back to a gasser in a hurry!

[team_v]

Thanks for the input cogdoc

I have been following your tinkering threads and i must say yyou have gone to extraordinary lengths to get the most out of the Diesel.

The DPF (not sure if it is in the tiguan or not) is a bit of a worry as space in the engine bay is already a bit of an issue so a provent might be a bit hard to install.

I also have to check out the price or BP diesel (and diesel ultimate) compared to BP premium.

Not sure if they are even planning a dpf delete for the tiguan (not sure if it even has one) so that is a bit of an issue too.

[Arctra]

The DPF (not sure if it is in the tiguan or not) ...

I also have to check out the price of ... (and diesel ultimate) ...

Not sure if they are even planning a dpf delete for the tiguan (not sure if it even has one) so that is a bit of an issue too.

The Tig TDI does have a DPF.

Caltex Vortex Diesel in Five Dock (NSW) has been a consitent 103.9c/L for a couple of months now. Doesn't seem to be any cheaper or dearer from day to day which is strange IMO.

I am curious about this DPF delete thing too. Not sure I'd do it, but if the DPF gets clogged, it might be the way to go rather than drop a couple of grand on a new DPF. That is assuming regulations don't dictate that a DPF is necessary by the time that happens.

[team_v]

The Tig TDI does have a DPF.

Caltex Vortex Diesel in Five Dock (NSW) has been a consitent 103.9c/L for a couple of months now. Doesn't seem to be any cheaper or dearer from day to day which is strange IMO.

I am curious about this DPF delete thing too. Not sure I'd do it, but if the DPF gets clogged, it might be the way to go rather than drop a couple of grand on a new DPF. That is assuming regulations don't dictate that a DPF is necessary by the time that happens.

The cheapest diesel near my place (carindale) is 119.9c/L an it's not even the ultimate so i will have to take that into consideration.

I had a look and i don't think they make a DPF delete for the Tig.
It is a shame because the power increase is quite a step up and you get none of the dpf issues.

thanks for the info on the Tig's DPF

[Greg Roles]

I'd say in the next year there'll be DPF deletes for most VW's, and I think the less than half $$ / performance / economy increases will make them appealing at DPF clog time. Thing is they are already cracking down on DPF delete companies in the USA, with the gov actually prohibiting the product and beginning visual soot testing in some states. I'd say in time it will be tested here as well, but I'll worry about that down the track.

Just don't buy a diesel expecting the 400k+ run forever that old diesels used to have without "tinkering" some emission systems.

[Mr.B]

The government will be cracking down on all new diesel cars being imported or built within the country starting this year. The legislation hasn't been drawn up yet as far as I'm aware, but it seems they are just doing field testing at the moment. I would like to clarify one thing however, we have not reached peak oil as many environmental groups would have you believe it's just a scare tactic to make people aware of what's going on. Whether this is a postive or negative is all down to the consumer.

Also, in regards to thermal efficiency of petrol vs diesel engines, petrol still wins (if the engines have the same compression ration). However, practically speaking, diesel engines are anywhere up to 35% more efficient that petrol ones. It basically comes down to how much energy you can get out of the fuel you're using, government estimates that about 62% of energy is lost in ICE's due to heat, friction, etc. Diesels only lose about 30-35% of the energy in the fuel.

I remember reading an article on a petrol car vs a diesel car of the same make, model, engine capacity, accessories etc and as it turns out a petrol car is cheaper in the short term for servicing. Long term however, the diesel had a payback of 10 years. Admittedly this was done in the UK where diesel cars are the preferred mode of transport. I think it would be unfair to try and draw a correlation between the UK and AUS in terms of servicing and the like.

My old man has a 2005 model diesel Golf and it goes like a little rocket and is great fun to drive. Although not very practical at times. This is where the Tiguan has its advantages as far as I can see. In terms of practicality, the diesel will have give you a lot more for much less. You'll have the torque to get out of sticky situations if need be as well as the towing capacity to moving trailed loads around with, without affecting the fuel economy too much.

Getting back to emissions, even if the government does crack down on emissions of new vehicles, the TDI Tiguan already meets EURO 5 ratings. Australian emissions standards are based off the Euro ones, but they are more closely related to the US and JAP ones. US and JAP ones are EURO 3 equivalent, so the Tiguan will far exceed the proposed legislation on emissions in the coming year. Personally, you know where I stand on the subject of diesel vs petrol. What it will come down to is if you're willing to sacrifice fun for sensibility.