DSG & neutral with handbrake

[wagonist]

I've done a bit of searching around for answers to the following question, but no one seems to have the definitive answer.

So, often sitting at longer traffic lights, I slip my car into neutral and put the handbrake on. Mainly because I'm lazy and don't want to have to sit pressing the brake pedal. And from many years of driving a manual where more pressure is needed to keep the clutch disengaged. Plus it's an easy way to bypass the auto stop/start feature
BTW, I'm not talking about coasting in neutral down the road or anything like that. A lot of the answers to this question seem to be based on that scenario.

I know I can't leave the car in D like a normal auto with a torque converter because otherwise the clutch is engaged.

But I'd like to know what is happening inside the gearbox during this scenario.
Does the DSG have a gearset position where nothing is engaged? On a manual under the same scenario, all of the synchros are disengaged so the input shaft is still spinning because the clutch is engaged, but is it the same?
Or is there some other trickery happening?

I would like to know so that I know whether I'm going to be wearing something out inside the gearbox in the long term.
I will change my habit if I have to, but would prefer not.

Sorry if this confusing. Trying to avoid answers that are not quite based on the scenario I've said like many of the answers I've seen.

BTW, vehicle is a 2015 Skoda Octavia Scout
TIA

[Guest001]

Why dont you just use auto hold

[wagonist]

Don't you have to be facing uphill for that to work? What about downhill or on the flat?

[Guest001]

Works anywhere probably even upside down LOL

What does your manual say

Wont be able to try it atm anyway will you

[Suncoaster]

As I understand it, the gearbox drops into neutral when the car is held on the brake, and it's only when you release the footbrake pressure is a gear engaged. The information I have seen says to hold it like a normal toque converter gearbox. BTW don't allow it to creep forward in traffic unless absolutely necessary, as that is similar to engaging and disengaging the clutch in a manual gearbox. Cheers-John

[Lucas_R]

I pop my car into neutral when ever im at traffic lights or stopped for any longer than about 10-15 seconds. I do this with the DSG in my Mk7 GTI and also the 8 speed auto in my SQ5.

It makes for a smoother idle and I dont need to have the brakes pressed as hard to hold the car stationary.

[Guest001]

As I understand it, the gearbox drops into neutral when the car is held on the brake, and it's only when you release the footbrake pressure is a gear engaged. The information I have seen says to hold it like a normal toque converter gearbox. BTW don't allow it to creep forward in traffic unless absolutely necessary, as that is similar to engaging and disengaging the clutch in a manual gearbox. Cheers-John

The auto hold keeps the brakes applied at the pressure you apply them until you touch the accelerator again so if you have it turned on it will hold the car in position anywhere.

To be exact in a DSG box it is always in a gear but the clutches are disengaged so that depending on whether you accelerate or decelerate is which clutch engages

[Lucas_R]

Essentially its like having your manual transmission car in 1st gear but with your foot pushed down on the clutch pedal.

[wagonist]

The auto hold keeps the brakes applied at the pressure you apply them until you touch the accelerator again so if you have it turned on it will hold the car in position anywhere.

To be exact in a DSG box it is always in a gear but the clutches are disengaged so that depending on whether you accelerate or decelerate is which clutch engages

I'll have to check where the settings are. I know it will do it uphill, but the lights where I leave my office are on a downward slope and take a while as it's just a driveway entrance off a major road. But I'm pretty if I just take my foot off the brake and it's in gear, it'll start to move off if it can.

[wagonist]

I pop my car into neutral when ever im at traffic lights or stopped for any longer than about 10-15 seconds. I do this with the DSG in my Mk7 GTI and also the 8 speed auto in my SQ5.

It makes for a smoother idle and I dont need to have the brakes pressed as hard to hold the car stationary.

This is what I'm doing, but wondering what's actually happening with the gearset inside the transmission.
ie is there a synchromesh system a bit like a manual, or is neutral a setting where both clutches are disengaged, or something else?

[Guest001]

This is what I'm doing, but wondering what's actually happening with the gearset inside the transmission.
ie is there a synchromesh system a bit like a manual, or is neutral a setting where both clutches are disengaged, or something else?

Your question has been answered by both Lucas and I and if you have AUTOHOLD on it shouldnt move until you dab the loud pedal

The DSG is a manual gearbox with electronically controlled clutches. It works by putting the gearbox into first on no 1 clutch and 2nd on no 2 clutch as you speed up it swaps clutches and the other one goes to 3rd and waits and so on up to 7th.

As you decelerate the opposite happens but normally it only goes back to 2nd unless you actually stop.
Should you go back to (say) 3rd and suddenly hit the loud pedal it will say to its self Oh **** i thought you were slowing and has to swap from 2nd to 4th so thats why you get that momentary pause as it cant read your mind

There endeth the lesson

[wagonist]

Your question has been answered by both Lucas and I and if you have AUTOHOLD on it shouldnt move until you dab the loud pedal

The DSG is a manual gearbox with electronically controlled clutches. It works by putting the gearbox into first on no 1 clutch and 2nd on no 2 clutch as you speed up it swaps clutches and the other one goes to 3rd and waits and so on up to 7th.

As you decelerate the opposite happens but normally it only goes back to 2nd unless you actually stop.
Should you go back to (say) 3rd and suddenly hit the loud pedal it will say to its self Oh **** i thought you were slowing and has to swap from 2nd to 4th so thats why you get that momentary pause as it cant read your mind

There endeth the lesson

Sorry, no it doesn't.

I'm pretty sure it has autohold. I stop on an uphill and take my foot off the brake and the car will sit there.
BUT, if I'm parked on a downhill or a flat and I take my foot off the brake without touching the loud pedal, the car will start to move like a normal auto...
Maybe there is a setting somewhere to change so that it operates all the time.

Your answer may give a solution to change my driving style, however, you're not answering my technical question of saying what is the trans doing when it's in neutral, which is what I'm really curious about.

[Guest001]

Sorry, no it doesn't.

I'm pretty sure it has autohold. I stop on an uphill and take my foot off the brake and the car will sit there.
BUT, if I'm parked on a downhill or a flat and I take my foot off the brake without touching the loud pedal, the car will start to move like a normal auto...
Maybe there is a setting somewhere to change so that it operates all the time.

Your answer may give a solution to change my driving style, however, you're not answering my technical question of saying what is the trans doing when it's in neutral, which is what I'm really curious about.

When its in Neutral or park will be doing nothing as the electronic side (mechatronics) will be off and so it just sits there. When You put it in D it wakes up and selects 1st, unless you put it in R.

Hill hold and Auto hold are different afaik Hill hold keeps brakes on for a certain time and then releases. Autohold keeps them on until you press the loud pedal.. Does in my Tig anyway and did in my prev Passat.. I will try it in the morning as going to a hilly part locally. I rarely use either cos its flat where i live.

You are of course enabling the Autohold by pressing the button arent you.

[wagonist]

When its in Neutral or park will be doing nothing as the electronic side (mechatronics) will be off and so it just sits there. When You put it in D it wakes up and selects 1st, unless you put it in R.

Hill hold and Auto hold are different afaik Hill hold keeps brakes on for a certain time and then releases. Autohold keeps them on until you press the loud pedal.. Does in my Tig anyway and did in my prev Passat.. I will try it in the morning as going to a hilly part locally. I rarely use either cos its flat where i live.

You are of course enabling the Autohold by pressing the button arent you.

Can you elaborate on the "just sits there"?
From my understanding of the clutches, they are naturally disengaged unless pressure is applied, which is the opposite of a clutch in a manual. If neutral then is simply that both clutches are disengaged and so the engine is spinning the input shaft(s) up to the clutches, then I'm cool with that. It shouldn't be spinning anything else in the gearbox.

Considering my car doesn't have an autohold button, I doubt it has that function. My only experience with an auto hold function is in a Mitsubishi Outlander at work which also then has an electric handbrake.
As my car still has a normal handbrake lever, I guess this would be a difficult function to integrate

[Guest001]

Can you elaborate on the "just sits there"?
From my understanding of the clutches, they are naturally disengaged unless pressure is applied, which is the opposite of a clutch in a manual. If neutral then is simply that both clutches are disengaged and so the engine is spinning the input shaft(s) up to the clutches, then I'm cool with that. It shouldn't be spinning anything else in the gearbox.

Considering my car doesn't have an autohold button, I doubt it has that function. My only experience with an auto hold function is in a Mitsubishi Outlander at work which also then has an electric handbrake.
As my car still has a normal handbrake lever, I guess this would be a difficult function to integrate

Sorry forgot you have that model without electric handbrake. So to save typing have a read through the 13 pages of this

DSG, demystified! All you need to know about VW's Direct-Shift Gearbox - Page 5 - Team-BHP