T5...and then it went bang...looks like another costly careless mistake

[aSimpleLife]

I think I've just done (another) very stupid thing to my poor T5 Transporter.
Was hoping for a diagnosis from anyone who knows more than me - before i get the tow truck in tomorrow.

I have a short, sharp and steep driveway with a right hand 90 degree bend in it. I always back in and exit front first, up the steep slope. It's mostly concrete with a patch of crushed rock in the middle.

Had a lot of things on my mind this afternoon, so I took off with the handbrake on. When I went over the crushed rock I thought the tyres were spinning and not gripping, so I accelerated to get over it (I now realise the wheels must have been skidding from the handbrake). As I started accelerating there was a loud bang. Right then I looked down and realised the hand brake was on so I released it. But now I have no acceleration. The engine is still running. The handbrake still applies and releases. The clutch presses and releases without any noise and I can change to all gears. But when I release the clutch nothing happens, except a grinding noise.

Having never done anything quite this bad before, it seems to me the damage must be in the gearbox or close to it. If it was the clutch then I'd expect to be experiencing shudder or slipping? But I get nothing, except that grinding noise.

[Sunny43.5]

Sounds to me like you have broken the drive shaft or stripped it out , I replaced one of mine recently as it was badly worn .Have a look on this post scroll down you can see how worn the splines were and from what others have told me and also has been reported in the UK they will snap off or strip out . you will probably need to replace the shaft and maybe the axle as well , I was lucky only the shaft was needed . One question were you aware of any unusual noise from the front end like some slack in the drive train when stopping and taking off . Mine was like a short jolt as the slackness in the spline was moving against the teeth . http://www.vwwatercooled.com/forums/...n-94796-2.html

[Umai Naa!!]

Stripped stub shaft.

Fair chance you'll need a driveshaft as well.

[aSimpleLife]

Thankyou for the replies - I feel bad that I only come hear looking for things and contribute pretty much nothing back - but your assistance is always so good, I can't help myself - I am planning on keeping my T5 forever though - so hopefully one day I'll be able to make the time to be more of a contributor and put something back.

Yes, that sounds like what it will be.
I was going to add in my original post, but didn't want to complicate things, that for the last 6 months or so I had noticed that slackness in the drive train, particularly at low speed cruising when deaccelerating, like a clunk. I had reported it to my mechanic at the last service, but he didn't identify the problem. He thought it might have been a worn rear engine mount, so replaced that, which might have made a small improvement, but the issue was still there. I was just too busy to look into it further...my mistake.
When accelerating in first, especially up an incline with some load, I had at times also noticed a tweeting noise, like an old beetle with a leak in the head gasket. Had also noticed at times a spring like noise too, again like the old VW beetle with clutch plate issues.
I guess I knew there was probably an issue developing, but I had no idea what it was, and my mechanic missed it too.

I've had the T5 since new and have only done 90,000km. I basically just use it for commuting mostly with very little load. Have only recently put on a towbar and used it once moving some bricks. But I do tend to drive the car hard, not thrash, but I've always driven like that. Maybe I need to modify my driving habits with this vehicle in future? Anything else I can do to prevent it happening again?

And anything I need to get clear with my mechanic with the repair? I've been with him a long time and he's not let me down before but he's not a VW expert. What sort of cost should I be looking at?

Thanks very much again.

PS - note - I had forgotten to mention the T5 is a 2010 manual 5spd.

[Sunny43.5]

Glad we could help cost wise the spline I purchased from VW was around $450 I don't know how much the axle will be . There are some available on Ebay if you are inclined to go the "alternative "path these guys are in Au VW Transporter T5 CV Joint Drive Shaft | eBay
VW Transporter T5 Manual CV Drive Shaft Brand NEW | eBay
VW Transporter T5 2 5 TDI Connecting Shaft Driveshaft Adaptor Stub Axle Offside | eBay

I do not know the quality of these aftermarket parts but they are a hell of a lot cheaper than VW , but according to our comrades in the UK the VW ones fitted new from the factory are made from toffee [according to one well know VW contributor in the UK anyway ] so who knows maybe the aftermarket ones could be better . Driving habits don't cause the problem as mine did not get changed until well over 200000 kays of hard driving with a moderate load every day . I put mine down to the bloody DMF thingy that VW fit , as opposed to the good old solid flywheel the Dual Mass Flywheel DMF will cark itself fairly easily and it helps contribute to drive train shuddering and that will help shag the splines as well IMO . Please don't panic if you don't think your opinions are worthwhile I am sure that all forum members started out the same way . I know at first you feel unsure but it does not hurt to ask questions . I know I have received loads of great support on things I was not certain about , so if something I have knowledge of comes up I do my best to assist [ sometimes not helpful sometimes using my warped sense of humour to make light of a situation ] Howard PS from a non mechanicly trained person it only took me a couple of hours to change the spline using basic tools and a shonky jack !!

[aSimpleLife]

Thanks for the feedback. I don't think it's because I am afraid to ask questions. It's more that I feel bad taking information from here when I don't put much back. I put back what I can to my own posts. But I just can't make the time to do more. Starting again in your 50's is just so time consuming.
Also, I used to be one of the worlds worst mechanics, mostly with old beetles, but I must confess I've never been better off than since I started paying a mechanic to service my vehicles for me. Trying to start a business now has left me with even less time now, and with the T5 being a full tax deduction, it seems to pay me to pay someone else. And as I intend to keep this T5 forever, as a private vehicle after the business is gone, I probably prefer to invest in it now while I can. Later I'll be left with no choice but to service it myself, and with more time then, I can probably take my time, enjoy it more, and be a bit more successful a backyard mechanic than I once was.

But back to the T5
You were all spot on with the diagnosis - although it looks like I've been spared the axle.
My mechanic has given me a few choices;

1 - From Sunny's valuable "spline" thread "the new stub shaft has revised (improved?) splines" - these can be supplied from VW at a higher price or I can go with a cheaper ebay type or reco with the original splines?
Looking at it long term it seems I should invest in the "improved" splines now? If they are really improved?

2 - I can just replace the damaged drivers side now or do both (even though the passenger side is apparently not damaged)?
I suppose the answer to that is based on the answer to my first question. If I go the ebay type option I'd only replace the damaged side? If I am going with the "improved" splines, then I should replace both sides now?

3 - I'd been told at my last service that I should replace the original front discs with a harder version in about another 12 months? I've got the option of doing that early now while the other work is done?

Any further suggestions would be appreciated.

[Sunny43.5]

I certainly would consider doing the discs at the same time it will save a lot of double work , I am about to put new rotors on mine [too much late breaking methinks] . I have also heard VW improved the splines but time will tell , passengers side on mine is still fine . Like I said on the original post I thought the reason for the drivers side failing was a throw back to the good old days of my rear wheel drive cars where you would try to powerslide around a corner and drivers side was always the best one to do Ha Ha [ yes I had a nice V8 Valiant in those days] I am approaching the 63 year mark and still occasionally like to get greasy hands but admits here that I find some modern technology testing my temper .

[aSimpleLife]

A V8 would have been nice...was it a manual?
Best I could do was a 245 hemi with an auto in a sw...not much fun through the corners...but mechanically it never missed a beat...shame about the body though - not the best vehicle to have down the beach.
As big as it was, it wasn't a patch on these T5's. Not to mention the fuel economy.
Thanks again for the info.

[Sunny43.5]

No it was VF wagon auto 318 Fireball and that auto could take anything the V8 could muster , never sure about reliability of the newer autos as we live in a different world . Mine was fine on the sand but that's another story . Good luck with the repairs let us know how it goes .

[aSimpleLife]

OK - got it back to day - and thought I better provide the final washup - through the pain
I decided to replace the stub and drive shafts on both sides with the modified version from VW - only the right side was damaged.
Also decided to get the front disc brakes replaced early too.
I get a local mechanic to do all my work - I was never very good as a backyard mechanic - and now I've got no spare time, as I put it all into a battling business - or renovating - and the van is a business expense.
He's been my brother's mechanic for 15 years - he still believes he can trust him to charge reasonably - I can't be sure any more - but I have little choice atm - he is not a VW specialist - but does service several transporters he says - I am a bit disappointed because I reported what I now know to be the symptoms at the last service - and he didn't diagnose it - instead replaced a rear engine mount.
Anyway, this was the damage;

$ 860 - 2 stub shafts
$1,020 - 2 drive shafts
$ 160 - 2 discs
$ 95 - front disc pads
$ 33 - grease
$ 25 - bolts
$ 34 - nuts
$ 15 - socket and allen key
$ 20 - delivery
$ 540 - labour
$2,802 - Total + GST

I'll be interested to hear if anyone thinks I am being taken for a ride.

Note 1 - mechanic said he definitely ordered the modified splines from VW - none of his other suppliers had heard of them - but only the right side was different - the left was exactly the same as what came out - his view is that means the fault is a right hand side only issue? - I have no idea what to make of that.

Note 2 - mechanic also advised he had significant trouble removing one shaft bolt that was rounding off hex (left side?)

[Sunny43.5]

The price looks pretty much on the mark VW parts are the killers . The labour looks good $540 for all that work seems reasonable . Not sure about supposed "modified "splines from the UK forum it seems that they are still a problem back in the UK . If you think the labour is a bit ripe check this one , I am in the middle of having a Turbo replaced on my wifes 2005 T5 the mechanics who are doing this particular job are charging me $2800 for labour that price will include an oil filter and oil change and some gaskets for the replacement turbo which I supplied . Hmmmm . Yes I have read that the turbo can be a bugger to do so I will be having some stern conversations with the shop about the high price .

[aSimpleLife]

Oh dear...that isn't making me feel any better
Good luck with that "conversation".
And thanks again for the feedback on labour prices - I have no idea whether what I am paying is fair and reasonable rate or not - I mean I really hope it is - I want to trust my mechanic - but you can't easily compare like for like - and service costs have been increasing more than cpi - and I just get the feeling I am being softened up in conversations for increases.

Have I made a terrible mistake buying a T5 as my van for hopefully the next 20 to 30 years?
I was hoping to invest in my T5 while it's a business vehicle for the next 10 years - while I have some money - get the depreciation out of the way - then have 10 to 20 years of low cost ownership where I could do as much of the maintenance myself as possible - when I have very little money.
I mean I love my T5 - it's wonderful to drive - and this is only my first breakdown type repair in 4 years - so I know I can be seen as over reacting - but is it just the first of many very expensive ones? - should I have chosen the Hiace back in 2010 when I had the choice?

[Sunny43.5]

Hi Ace ? NO NO I drove one for a while whilst I was doing some fit out for a friend , horrible ride the back end would try and overtake the front over rough ground they hobby horse like crazy . Then if you look out the front windscreen you can see another car that will hit you as there is nothing in front to protect you . Look my problems are mine and I will reiterate what I have said before not everyone will have problems half a million kays is not unusual without too many problems . I still believe I broke one of my own golden rules NEVER buy the first of a new model ours was one of the first of the T5s sold in Qld at the time in 2004 . With careful following of service procedures and most important use the correct oils all will be fine , ride of the T5's is what I do love they drive like a car and with a few mods are even better .

[aSimpleLife]

yes...i've been doing some more reading tonight...about vans and their comparisons...instead of what I should be doing...working

I've only driven the older Hiace's - so it's probably not a fair comparison - but they are more like driving a 60's beetle....as your say
I suppose it comes down to how much I value the drive - and it is wonderful.
The poor T5 resale value - compared to say the Hiace - sort of locks me in too - plus I hate the selling process - and everyone telling me why my vehicle's not worth what i think
If I do decide to stay with it, I'll be looking after it more than I did - no more hard driving around corners - and I'll have to find a better parking spot.
I really have to put more time into understanding how to keep the cost of ownership down with a T...and of course...keep my fingers crossed

Funny you mention the oil...one of the things I felt my mechanic was softening me up on probably 12 month's back...is telling me he had to pay more for the oil he was using...because of the feedback he was getting...so maybe he does just have my best interests at heart?

Do you mind me asking what those "few mods are even better" are?
Sorry for being lazy and not reading back through your volumes of valuable posts.

[Sunny43.5]

The mods you alluded to were fitting a Bilstein Coil over suspension system it has lowered the van and made the ride more car like handles and corners much nicer [This was the second suspension kit the original one from FK in Europe was a load of rubbish ended up chucking the kit on the dump . We do not carry heavy loads only our two disabled children . Then I have custom fitted out the inside as it was a bare shell to start with link here .http://www.vwwatercooled.com/forums/...tml?highlight= . loads of soundproofing and then the rest of the trimming . Makes a huge difference because its very quiet inside with improved ride etc.