That's me, I'm done with Multivans

[Cousin]

The auto's gone again, s**t!
Went the first time at 150,000 ks
Not ideal, but not unusual for any trannie to let go at those ks
Had it rebuilt by the best mob I could find
Felt confident they had the knowledge to build a better box, and hoped it would last longer
96,000 ks later, the clutches have gone
Oil was changed at 50,000
I'm friggin annoyed, this van has cost me $15,000 in repairs in the 2 and a half years I've had it
Top van to drive, and has brilliant creature comforts (Highline) but it's just too expensive to run
Lord knows what I'll get next, after I get my moneys worth out of this rebuild
Carry a small amount of gear, around 200 kgs and do around 350,000 ks over 6 years before I move them on
The last T4's were brilliant, but the Multi has been a huge disappointment in reliability
Bloody shame, I've enjoyed driving this van


M

[phaeton]

Good luck with next purchase

[Transporter]

The T6 is not far away and the new transmisions should be more reliable.

[Cousin]

Phaeton, LUCK?!
Drowned myself in Guinness, hasn't worked yet
I'll keep trying

And Transporter, I remember all the talk when DSG's were coming out in the Multis. They would solve all our problems
I refuse to take another expensive punt and end up with a jerky DSG
I know a lot here are happy with theirs, and they seem to go well, but the electronics are their Achilles heel
I constantly hear about VW owners having dramas with their DSG's, and not just Multis
There is still a year and a bit on the lease, so I'll continue to enjoy it while I can, and then see what the T6 brings in
But I'm real nervous about VW transmissions
The Golf we had blew the manual, and we then found out they were a known problem
The two T4's I had were as close to bullet proof as I could find in vehicles
Might have to look at a manual TDI Caddy, but then the diesels are chocking themselves to death with Euro emission standards, and the TSI's are very underpowered
I'll have to keep looking and watching


M

[BrianJ]

Thanks for the feedback, this is a concern to me as well. My 2006 2.5 96kw 6 speed auto has now done 150,000km, no auto oil changes, never been touched, although I drive it consistently and easily.

Here is the problem, most cars have a half life of 5 years, meaning that every 5 years the resale value falls to half what it was, that makes mine soon worth about $25,000. It won't be long before the cost of a replacement auto gearbox is equal to the value of the entire van.

I was quote $1400 by a Brisbane dealer to change the gearbox oil !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This entailed changing it twice to get all of the oil out of the torque convertor and as the oil is worth the price of liquid gold and has to been fully replaced twice, I decided enough was enough and I will let sleeping dogs lie. I know I could get it partially changed for much less at a non dealer, but the costs soon mount up and I am not prepared to pay such outrageous amounts for such a simple process.

So I am living on borrowed time, who knows I might hit the jackpot and get 300,000km or it might go next week.

To be realistic, these boxes are similair to what Toyota provides and made in Korea, so somewhere along the line the construction has been slowely whitled down and weakened to save money that it can't even last the first half life of the vehicle. I am not confident that this reductionism will be suddenly reversed and things will get better with the next model.

It was a constant catch cry in the I.T. business that all the bugs will be ironed out in the new version of software, guess what, it always had more bugs.

Brian

[Diesel_vert]

To be realistic, these boxes are similair to what Toyota provides and made in Korea...

Toyota is the majority shareholder of Aisin.

It's more probable that the gearboxes are made in Japan, since Aisin hasn't set up any manufacturing plants in South Korea, AFAIK.

Although no manufacturer is free from problems or defects, I doubt these gearboxes are inherently unreliable and I have sneaking suspicion that other factors many be in play here.

This is an interesting quote...

The Japanese automatic transmission manufacturer AISIN Co., LTD is the developer and
manufacturer of the 09G/09M transmission. Volkswagen engineers developed
the transmission in conjunction with Aisin and adapted it to Volkswagen vehicles.

So what's the likelihood that's the source of all our problems, as highlighted in bold?

[Cousin]

Brian you really should get the auto oil changed, and do it at least every year
Last time mine was done it cost $320 including oil
That was by a specialist auto re builder
But I do understand your thought, sleeping dogs generally don't cause problems
I've done the right thing and it hasn't helped

Dieselvert, what other factors do you suspect?
And an Aussie developed the DSG, you'd think he would've used better fencing wire!


M

[BrianJ]

Because the box was designed to be sealed for life there is no way provided to get the oil out of the torque convertor as far as I know, so when it is done with a single change there is lots of dirt left inside. But, if it was changed each year then a lesser and lesser amount of dirt is left as subsequent changes are done. In theory this should be the best method, but over ten years that would be about $5000 worth of work, so its barely worth the trouble in terms of a replacement new box price which I was quoted as I think $9000.

How can you know the clutches are gone, are they all gone, if so this might point to the actuator pressure being too low, however if only one has gone then maybe that was one that wasn't resleeved last time it was repaired. Do you trust the diagnosis?

Brian

[IN2VWS]

Is your Multi a DSG or a pre DSG auto?

[Cousin]

It's a 2006, so very pre DSG (and pre DPF, thankfully) IN2VWS

Brian, the first time it went it was progressively getting more and more flarey (?)
Then on a freeway one day just started loosing drive and that was it
Had a complete rebuild by A&B in Dandenong
I'm led to believe they are very good, and from what I saw and heard I accept that, and don't doubt their work

This time I was slowing down almost to a stop, then went to go and nothing for a second and a bit, then it grabbed and away we go
First thing I thought was 'so that's what a DSG feels like'
After that taking off in first gear a little bit shuddery and eventually gets traction and off we go. Rest of the gears ok
Noticed the next day taking it down to Manual Automatics (!) in Thomastown (again highly recommended) as I'm pulling up to a stop it's shuddery there as well
They ran it on the diagnostic and did a test drive, and Manual said it looks like the clutches are going
So it's on a drip at the mo, with nurses checking on it every 2 hours

And Brian I have to trust the diagnosis as I don't know any different
His explanation sounded on the mark, and he was recommended to me by a VW mech I've been with for over 10 years

Get it back late next week
Best I go back to work and pay for it

I've always given VW a big rap, but I can't now
And if I can find something else that suits my needs and it happens to be another badge, so be it

M

[BrianJ]

I've always given VW a big rap, but I can't now
And if I can find something else that suits my needs and it happens to be another badge, so be it

M

I completely know why you are feeling that way, the other day I added up everything that has needed to be repaired on my kombi beach in the last 5 years and it came to about $5000, that's $1000/year just for parts that have worn out, running costs/reg/insurance and tyres and fuel are another cost, and I consider mine bus to be a reasonably reliable van.

You just don't have that overhead cost of replacement parts with a Japanese van, but unfortunately you also don't get the performance and the big thing for me and the reason I have the VW van is because no other brand offers anything like the kombi beach in a short wheelbase van.

All you can do is cross your fingers.

Brian

[Silver Caravelle]

Hi Cousin,

Exactly what my 2008 Multivan has been doing for about a month or so. And only about 57K! Fine from standstill; torque converter engaged. Feels fine through the gears. Only issue is slowing down almost to a stop, then a hestitation for a second and then torque converter jolts slightly when reengaging.

Regards,

Scott

It's a 2006, so very pre DSG (and pre DPF, thankfully) IN2VWS


'This time I was slowing down almost to a stop, then went to go and nothing for a second and a bit, then it grabbed and away we go
First thing I thought was 'so that's what a DSG feels like'

M

[BrianJ]

I thought that was just the time the box takes to get itself from the appropriate gear for slowing down into the right gear for excellerating away again, it does take a small amount of time. Usually I predict this type of occurance and ease my foot down then once it is in the right gear I add more power. This is just one of the small ways to reduce the wear and tear on the box.

Brian

[Sunny43.5]

I can also feel your pain Brian ours has been playing up worse since VW serviced it at 130.000 , and what is interesting was I tried to pay VW to service and check the auto at around 70.000 as it was giving some problems and they said no cannot do . Now they say yes we can NOW service the auto and upgrade the software which has now made it worse to the point that it will fail in the middle of an intersection causing some fairly fast shifts to neutral turn off and on and away we go , I would dearly like to know why turning of and on FIXES the slipping ????? Maybe I am a sceptic but the new T6 what sort of technical nightmare will it hide under the floor . If engineers wanted to do the right thing they should build an auto without all the tech stuff that seems to plague the cars today , my friends 2012 T5 auto at less than 10.000 kays is a bloody disgrace , I have driven it twice and I am not impressed clunky changes holding gear and some slipping etc.. and he now has also started in on VW for a fix .

[Silver Caravelle]

Brian,

Prior to this, my auto had no perceptible hesitation/delay in reengaging at all from a rolling slow down. Very smooth progressive take up (actually so was my previous T4 Caravelle). I reckon it might be a slightly sticky solenoid in the valve body in the Auto. Still to get it checked for fault codes. These vehicles are too bloody expensive to buy in the first place to put up with this sort crap. My old 505 GTi Pug did 500K plus without the auto ever missing a beat. I don't share the confidence that the next model T6 will be the opportunity for VW to get their act together; they have had plenty of opportunities for prior/current models to correct their misdemeanours!

Regards, Scott

I thought that was just the time the box takes to get itself from the appropriate gear for slowing down into the right gear for excellerating away again, it does take a small amount of time. Usually I predict this type of occurance and ease my foot down then once it is in the right gear I add more power. This is just one of the small ways to reduce the wear and tear on the box.

Brian