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T4 TDI Woes

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  • #31
    Originally posted by Transporter View Post
    The current Autodata says
    For 2.5TDI
    Up to 1999 check the timing belt every 30,000km and replace t/b incl. tensioner at 120,000km
    From 2000 check t/b at 60,000km and replace t/b incl. tensioner at 120,000km
    Transporter...? As a mechanic....how does one 'check' a timing belt? Especially given how much of a palaver it is to even see the damn thing in the first place. Why yes that is indeed a timing belt!! Cheque?

    Who writes these service things?? I'm looking at you, VW...

    My service and parts counter at the VW dealer has few positive things to say about VW...certainly to me anyway. Though they still take their idea of service costs...

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    • #32
      You know...I do have to wonder sometimes about the 'training' that VW gives our learned friends in the Dealer Service department.

      Dropped the T4 off yesterday morning at 8am to get the two belts and water pump replaced. Spoke to them yesterday afternoon when they said would you mind us keeping it overnight because it is still in pieces...[no of course not because it's not like I can drive the sodding thing anyway] And it'll be ready to pick up around 10:30 tomorrow...and we'll even wash it.

      Spool forward to today. As I write this at nigh on three in the afternoon it is still not finished - at least another hour. So I can kiss the wash good bye!!

      It turns out that our learned friends have had the entire front of the car off - bull bar included. So it is no pfaffing wonder it's taking so bloody long. This is the vehicles third timing belt by my estimation and the second one done by these guys...but it has to be the first time that anyone has taken the entire front end off!!! Certainly has never ever ever taken this long....

      Damn glad I got a quote.

      Comment


      • #33
        There could be areason for the whole front off , maybe because it has abull bar they could not get access into the engine bay properly . As you may or may not know the front of the T4 actually tilts forward once you undo some bolts the front assembly can be lifted slightly and then it swings out at the top on special hinging pieces .

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        • #34
          It should take around 3.7 hours.
          Performance Tunes from $850
          Wrecking RS OCTAVIA 2 Link

          Comment


          • #35
            Further update. Picked the thing up. It had actually been washed. Quite well too. Charged the quoted figure of $1,288 or thereabouts. Ran sweetly all the way home.

            So all good...

            The stated reason that they'd removed the bar was to gain access to the fuel pump to redo the timing. They agreed they didn't really need to but it made access easier...the upshot is that neither of the blokes that worked on the car had done a T4 TDi belt kit before.

            The only wrinkle was the cold starting experience this morning. It lacked fuel prime and wouldn't start first go. After a couple of boots it chugged to a beginning and then into a smooth idle - exactly like there was air in the system. I've had the same thing happen when changing a diesel fuel filter. I'll give them the benefit of doubt this first time but if it keeps happening then....

            Oh and the other thing was that they 'thought' that VW had set timing belt swap intervals for all VW engines at 105,000 km. But they'd check for me. <sigh>

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            • #36
              The belt for the injector pump is a time-consuming job to do, as the pump timing needs to be spot-on. This involves a few VW-supplied tools and an accurate dial indicator. Then there's the belt and water pump to do.

              It's not a job that needs to be rushed, that's for sure. We're already well aware of the damage a failed belt can do!
              '07 Transporter 1.9 TDI
              '01 Beetle 2.0

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              • #37
                Originally posted by Umai Naa!! View Post
                The belt for the injector pump is a time-consuming job to do, as the pump timing needs to be spot-on.
                This I know because they've bollocksed it - cold start is terrible. Needs two to three boots before it strugglechugs to life and another few seconds to drop to a good idle.

                So it's back to the shop I go...

                Oh and they confirmed the 105K timing belt interval.

                Comment


                • #38
                  It has been a couple of weeks since you reported your broken cambelt "tdi", any further news or solutions?
                  Understand how it works, troubleshoot logically BEFORE replacing parts.
                  2001 T4 TRAKKA Syncro 2.5TDI,2006 Mk5 2.0TDI Golf manual,2001 Polo 1.4 16V manual [now sold], '09 2.0CR TDI Tiguan manual,
                  Numerous Mk1 Golf diesels

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Umai Naa!! View Post
                    This involves a few VW-supplied tools and an accurate dial indicator.
                    You shouldn't need a dial indicator to set the timing on the TDI, but you will need VagCom.
                    Understand how it works, troubleshoot logically BEFORE replacing parts.
                    2001 T4 TRAKKA Syncro 2.5TDI,2006 Mk5 2.0TDI Golf manual,2001 Polo 1.4 16V manual [now sold], '09 2.0CR TDI Tiguan manual,
                    Numerous Mk1 Golf diesels

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Seano View Post
                      They agreed they didn't really need to but it made access easier...the upshot is that neither of the blokes that worked on the car had done a T4 TDi belt kit before.
                      Lovely, do work experience on your van but charge full price as if they are experienced & still not get it right.
                      Understand how it works, troubleshoot logically BEFORE replacing parts.
                      2001 T4 TRAKKA Syncro 2.5TDI,2006 Mk5 2.0TDI Golf manual,2001 Polo 1.4 16V manual [now sold], '09 2.0CR TDI Tiguan manual,
                      Numerous Mk1 Golf diesels

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Righto....dropped the T4 back into the shop on Monday morning. They suggested that they keep it overnight to see if they could match the symptoms that I was experiencing. I received a Kia Cerato sedan as an alternative - which they agreed not to charge me for.

                        The next morning the T4 apparently performed as I suggested...but the intial diagnosis was unexpected. No.1 glow plug is history. This might explain the awful start but both the shop and I (me more so) are slightly doubtful since this vehicle has never before been an unwilling starter - ever. So how the heck a new belt and fuel pump timing might conspire with one or more dud glow plugs is something of a mystery to me. Suffice to say that they've apparently not looked much further than that...

                        Upshot at this point is that the T4 remains at the shop, I remain driving a Kia and a full set of glow plugs are in transit from Sydney. I cough up the $250 for the plugs, the shop will fit them for free and then they'll see what happens. With luck, I'll get it back before the weekend.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Without stirring a hornets nest some of the reasons why these jobs sometimes take so long is unless you get the "older " mechanic to work on your van these younger mechanics are from a new methodology school . Very recently and this is true a woman told me that the reason this sort of thing happens is that the Technicians who train these young guys virtually only show then how to replace whole components rather than repairing them so a timing belt would fit nicely into the category of a mongrel not anyones favourite job to do as they DO have to do lots of manual labour where as replacing a whole single component is more straight forward .Come on all you mechanics get out your machine guns and shoot me down if I,m wrong here .

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Seano View Post
                            Righto....dropped the T4 back into the shop on Monday morning. They suggested that they keep it overnight to see if they could match the symptoms that I was experiencing. I received a Kia Cerato sedan as an alternative - which they agreed not to charge me for.

                            The next morning the T4 apparently performed as I suggested...but the intial diagnosis was unexpected. No.1 glow plug is history. This might explain the awful start but both the shop and I (me more so) are slightly doubtful since this vehicle has never before been an unwilling starter - ever. So how the heck a new belt and fuel pump timing might conspire with one or more dud glow plugs is something of a mystery to me. Suffice to say that they've apparently not looked much further than that...

                            Upshot at this point is that the T4 remains at the shop, I remain driving a Kia and a full set of glow plugs are in transit from Sydney. I cough up the $250 for the plugs, the shop will fit them for free and then they'll see what happens. With luck, I'll get it back before the weekend.
                            Hrrmmmmm. You're right ofcourse, its rather unlikely that the new timing belt spoke with the old glow plugs and got into a fight and killed one of them.... much more likely that when the injector pump belt was changed the timing is now retarded a bit.

                            having said that, a new set of glow plugs isnt a bad thing. But, if you keep having problems I will bet its the pump timing. A couple of weeks ago I posted that my dad had done the t-belt job himself - well, it took him 3 or 4 goes to get the pump timing right aswell. The shop doesnt have any real excuse because they should have all the correct tools (the dial gauge and adaptor) but you do need to be extremely careful even with the right tools because you only need to be out by a little to make a big change to performance, economy and especially cold starting.

                            Best of luck with it
                            '07 Touareg V6 TDI with air suspension
                            '98 Mk3 Cabriolet 2.0 8V
                            '99 A4 Quattro 1.8T

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by gldgti View Post
                              ... a new set of glow plugs isnt a bad thing. But, if you keep having problems I will bet its the pump timing...
                              I reckon it is almost certainly pump timing. The glow plugs were certainly old - they are the originals - and they don't last forever. But the timing is critical and is almost certainly the only thing that has changed between last week and this.

                              The bonus of all this is I'll get a set of plugs fitted for gratis...glass is half full!!

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by gldgti View Post
                                Hrrmmm The shop doesnt have any real excuse because they should have all the correct tools (the dial gauge and adaptor) but you do need to be extremely careful even with the right tools because you only need to be out by a little to make a big change to performance, economy and especially cold starting.
                                As I said earlier in this thread, VagCom is needed to set the timing. The dial gauge & adaptor aren't good enough for the TDI. The engine needs to be above 85C & running & the timing plotted on a graph.It needs to be spot on to start at the touch of the key.It takes time to set it properly & adjusted carefully.
                                Understand how it works, troubleshoot logically BEFORE replacing parts.
                                2001 T4 TRAKKA Syncro 2.5TDI,2006 Mk5 2.0TDI Golf manual,2001 Polo 1.4 16V manual [now sold], '09 2.0CR TDI Tiguan manual,
                                Numerous Mk1 Golf diesels

                                Comment

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